Autoweek blurb

Talk amongst yourselves.

I'd love to see something with the LS-6 or even the LS-2.

For what it's worth, AW has also reported slow sales to-date on the Pontiac GTO, here.

Last time I visited a GM/Pontiac dealership, they had one GTO in the showroom and it was marked up $3,000 above the sticker price. So it was $37K or thereabouts. Hmm. I wonder if it's still there?

-John

aww.. i got excited.. that paragraph probably wasn't even 30 words long... the best part was: "We'll have a competitor"...


i'm ready to see a new Camaro...

i would like to see these things:
weight about 3200 lbs(or less is always good)
displacement right around 5.0 liters
rear suspension similar to 82-02 f-bods


things i don't want to see:
6 speed tranny.. 5 is fine with me
retro stying that goes back farther than 1982
excessive bells and whistles(gotta love those third gen interiors!)

hmm...not too keen on retro designs, makes me think the designers have lost their imagination. However, if retro is what is going to happen or could happen...

- early 2nd gen influence. I think influence of that vintage will lend itself better for aerodynamics. It's already there in the 98-02 nose; could morph that a little without completely changing the car's look.
- I would also keep the 6-speed trans, as I really like the potential for great fuel economy.
- larger fuel tank, perhaps by 3-4 gallons.
- BETTER SEATS....MUCH BETTER SEATS....
- put the Vette brake calipers on. At least make an initially adequate brake setup a little better.
- Let's see the WHOLE engine...or at least 6 of the 8 cylinders.
- retro engine sizes - 302 for the Z, 396 for the SS. The 302 can be 365 HP, the 396 can be 400 HP.
- more rear gear options (maybe attached to the 1LE package?)
- keep the "stripper" Z28 model at $25K for starting costs, hopefully less...

Rob -

-I would like to see the LS1 Camaro look GONE. I'm sorry but I just hate that front clip. To round, looks like a catfish gasping for air (I prefer the shark look of the LT1 cars). It's not that it's ugly, I just do not think that it belongs on a Camaro. It looks great on the Sebring. Once again that is just an opinion and you know what they say about opinions...
-I don't see them ditching the 6 speed. That could only hurt them.
-Larger Fuel Tank? Eh, I guess. It isn't THAT bad.
-Better seats would be good, but my '94's seats are fine for street driving, but then again I'm 20 and my bones don't creak yet.
-Better Brakes would be a DEFINATE plus! At least something adequate to stop a 3800lb (with driver/passenger) from a highway roll without warping a rotor to resemble a potato chip.
-I got used to working on my 4cyl Camaro. I take comfort knowing that the other 4 are under the dash if I ever need them. Chevrolet technicians will agree with you though, they hate working on 4th gens.
-Retro engine sizes would be cool. Because with a 396ci LSx block we could bore and stroke to probably 454ci.
-The rear gear options will have to keep a decent sized pinion, so those might have to only be offered with a package for a larger 10 bolt or a 12 bolt (crossing my fingers now). That might be a pricey option, but worth it. Might run into EPA problems though. It wouldn't be worth an extra gas guzzler tax.
-I agree with keeping a stripper model low. I like stripped cars. Hardtops and crank windows are the stuff that my dreams are made of.

What I'd like to see:
Lowest weight possible (sub 3000lbs)
V8 engine (LS2 based) w/ good low end torque and 300+ HP
6 speed manual
minimal bells & whistles (give it power windows & door locks, A/C, radio and ABS and leave it at that)
good seats
4th gen rear suspension would be fine
Low cost

Heck, if they could make it light enough (sub 2500lbs) I'd even take it with a smaller engine (maybe the Gm inline 6, or a turbo/supercharged 4).

Well I'd better get my two-bits in here:

I'd like to see a two-seat, Mid-engined Fbody with the C5-R 427 engine weighing around 2500 lbs! Forget all the power crap and bells and whistles, that just adds weight. Give me window cranks instead. A transaxle with T-56 guts would be great. The design could be similar to the DeTomasso/Ford Pantera. It would be everything the Corvette never was, but should have been, with the mid-engined design. I'd be ready to buy one of these in a heartbeat!

Good things about a 4th gen:
Wonderful lightweight aluminum V8 with balls!
Excellent 6 speed gear box
Great styling with a windshield rate only seen on exotic cars
Low cost

Bad things about a 4th gen:
1000 lbs too heavy
should be mid engined, RWD with IRS
frame too flexy
Sits too high
Seats do not provide lumbar support (unless you get a Firebird)
Should be a two-seater

sub 3000lbs is just craziness! won't happen, I don't think.
That said it would be real nice to have the car weigh in sub 3200lbs. Even stripper 4th gens are around 3400lbs. V8, 6spd, solid axle are the standard Z28 items. front engine layout would stay as it is cheapest. Stripper cars are a definate must as well. Maybe solid axle rear w/ IRS option on higher end cars ala Mustang GT/Cobra of today although IRS would be over stepping the bounds into the corvette world.
Use some of the engineering lessons of the C5/6 and make it lighter and a tad narrower/shorter. I love the fbody, they are just so freakin heavy!
yeah, keep it cheap!

Funny, my codriver at last weekends autocross made a comment about the Focus we were parked next to:

"It feels funny to be looking up at a Focus"!

Saw the title, "5th gen camaro" and the first thing that I thought was....

the only way that is going to happen is if Holden has one in their line. (They don't.)

The last place a GM marketing guy should look is this forum for ideas. A bunch of racer types that primarily buy used f-bodies and modify the shit out of them. GM's 4th gen marketing misfortune has payed off in dividends for us. It may not happen again soon.

I feel damn lucky that I've got the Camaro. If I didnt already have four cars, I would be looking for another f-body.

Yep. That and we want what noone else does - Bling free missiles with bumpy rides.

y5e06 - My '94 Z28 has power windows/locks, cloth, and a hardtop. BONE stock it was 3430 with a third of a tank. I would think that a stripper model dry would fall well short of 3,400 wouldn't it?

It will be interesting to get it back on the scale some time soon. Hey, do you guys autocross with your spare/jack in place?

Spare and jack in place, full tank of gas...

Every f-body I've owned (and my Vettes) have all had their spares removed as soon as I got them. The spare tire well on the f-bodies makes a really nice storage area for all kinds of race equipment, tools, etc. Right now in the Hawk, I've got a box in there with:
torque wrench
socket set, screw drivers, wrenches, pliers
spare serpentine belt
fix a flat (for emergency tire repair)
mini air compressor
towels
long sleeve shirt (in case I forget for track days)
brake fluid
rubber hose
stock jack (although I normally carry a small floor jack for events too)
race brake pads

It's all in a box that wedges in the space nicely but can still be pulled easily during track events. Plus all of that combined is probably about the same weight as the factory spare tire.

....what I would like to see.....a NEW Camaro PLEASE!!!!!!!!

I'd be happy with a fresh clutch and a T2R.

...already got those....

As a college student at $6.50/hour it's looking like the 5th gen might come and go before I have those items.

Thats cool but this is what I would like to see it be for a bit.

But then again it would be more practical to just revise what they already were doing.And this if came out with like the new LS2 or LS6 on steriods and the IRS everybody has mentioned keep the t56 and beef it up It would be in my garage. But this car is hella expensive soo...I would hope they could keep the cost down.
You know whatever... they just need to bring it!! But I'm not holding my breath

That's a good one.

Maybe if we did "the anti Fast and Furious" and it starred fast cars with ugly wheels, stock shifter knobs and anything that had wings on it was owned by the Airforce (and actually flew), we could start a new trend. Then, everyone would want hard top strippers. They'd be flying off the lots.

If only.....

Everytime I see a nice hardtop "upgraded" to a T-Top I want to strangle someone.

Oh well, if they want to make my car more special (even just to me), then I guess I'll let 'em.

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/...5862_9_full.jpg

Personally, I'd really like to see a new F-body (would it still be called an F-body if it were new?) that has a stripper version starting around $20k. It would be offered with a smallish (3.8L) V6 and absolutely no frills (not even A/C or ABS). However, the body (body=chassis, body panels, and other non-moving parts) would be about the only thing not optionable. It would hearken back to the days of 6 page long option lists (none of this "package" crap, either!). You could order one with IRS or a live axle, because the engineer would have designed it to accept either. You could have it with the V6, a low HP V8 (maybe 300hp or so) and a high HP V8 (maybe 400hp or so). The option list would not charge you for taking things off (like "A/C delete") because they wouldn't be on there!

The reason I want a Camaro/Firebird that can still be had with a V6, leather, convertible, A/C, heated seats, power everything, auto, etc., etc., etc. is because that's what the girls will want. That is what will sell enough of these things so that the rest of us can have our light, powerful, well-handling race cars from the factory. Even though the Cobra is flashy, its the V6 Mustang that keeps the Cobra running, so to speak.

It will need to be smaller looking (you gotta admit, the 3rd and 4th gens look huge!), not as low slung looking (engineers can do amazing things with window placement, and door sills so that a car can be low, but not look low), and probably retro in the first incarnation (latest fad - it'll sell). While it looks like I'm in the minority, I actually like (more like LOVE) that 69 Camaro/Ferarri Modena drawing that some guy in Texas had floating around the internet about a year ago.

AAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

That pic is painful isn't it? From the pics, that was a nice car before he started cutting. With every snip his mullet surely grew by an inch.

Thats the pic that I'm gonna whip out the next time someone tells me that a T-Top is just as strong as a hardtop.

I'd have traded him....

It was a '94ish car. It was an LT1. Of course it also sports an SS hood/spoiler, and 18in chromies. Gotta have everything to maximize bling.

LS1 hardtops are cool, because it seems like there aren't nearly as many. I know a guy with a gold SS hardtop... tell me that isn't a rare car! A little bit ugly, but rare. One of his co-workers has a NICE white hardtop LS1 Z. Oh well, I love the LT1s. I came REALLY close to buying a red '96 SS with red hardtop. It just didn't seem to have the balls that my Z has. I'm pretty sure that it had been beaten. I was fortunate enough to have a history with my car before I bought it. I prefer a hardtop, but I prefer my friends to have T-Tops and ragtops. It's against everything that I stand for, but I love a 'vert on a cool evening.

A great deal of what everyone is hoping for will probably never hapen due to one car, the Vette. GM is not going to make a cheaper car that out performs and out handles the Corvette. They probably learned a lesson with the 4th Gen car that performance alone doesn't always sell mass quantities of cars. As far as the retro look goes, if done right it can be a success. I personally think Ford is going to sell a shit load of the new Mustangs. They are retro, but look really nice IMHO, and should be priced right.

I've actually seen quite a bit of debate about this. I'm actually of the opinion that a hardtop is just as structurally sound as a t-top. Take a look at that picture - the internal supports are the exact same thing I have in my t-top car (not partial to t-tops - there's a lot that can be done to the car below the roof before the roof design becomes a deciding factor in stiffness).

Sure, a hardtop car has some sheet metal that is bolted/welded to the structural components. But, does this sheet metal really enhance stiffness? To me, it is like replacing metal body panels with fiberglass or plastic. The underlying frame is the same, so the stiffness is the same (or so close as to not be measurably different).

About the only thing that would make a big difference is if a hardtop car had some kind of bar that went from the windsheild pillar to the sail panel (where the handle is for a t-top). Now, that piece would help a LOT!

I agree...it was SO HARD to find a hardtop when looking for my race car....bought it in KANSAS of all places....

I used to chide folks on other boards when they posted the "Look at my new T-Top" posts.....got old though....and I found I was fighting a LOSING battle.....

To install Ts the two pieces of boxed steel above each side window is removed. Removing them does make make the chassis more flexible. Maybe you missed that from the photo. Note the boxed steel pieces are surely gone in the photo linked above.

Ahhhhhh, so there is some kind of structural support running from the edge of the windsheild to the sail panel! Well, that would definitely make it stiffer.

Let me add that to the "5th Gen Wishlist" - optional roll cage from the factory, with a removable soft top.

Yep, there is a good bit of metal that has to be hacked out. You can see in the pic where that guy had chopped it out. He is still holding the weapon. My hardtop with SFCs feels pretty stiff to me, especially compared to my friend's '01 SS T-Top (No SFCs). Night and day. Cars have similar mileage.

Definitely! There is a very noticable difference in the way my 94 & 98 hard tops feel compared to my 99 w/ T-tops.

There was a post on another board with a link to a newspaper article about a 5th gen Camaro that I can't find now. The article was in a Toronto newspaper that said GM was in negotiation with the Canadian government for tax breaks in building 2 new factories. They listed out the vehicles to be assembled at the new plants and the Camaro was on the list. In a way I'm happy that it's coming back. On the other hand the re-sale value of my 2002 will go straight into the dumper as soon as the 5th gen comes out.

That will depend on what exactly the 5th gens would be. if they are a pony car (read: front engine/RWD, v8, solid axle, 2+2) then you would pobably take a hit. if GM brings the badge back, in some other form of car (think Monte SS, Impala), then the value of car may actualy go up.

I swear, if GM tries to bring back the Camaro/Z28 or Firebird/Trans Am badge and stick it on some underpowered, FWD, 5 passenger, blandly styled, chushy riding, V6, narrow-tire-having, only-available-in-automatic, baby-seat-toting, huge trunked, short hooded, high center of gravity grocery getter, I'LL KILL THEM!

Have you looked at the "values" on them so far? I am about 10K upside down in mine (as a trade in, 5K if I tried to sell it). I owe about 22k on it and "trade in" is 13k (it dropped from 17,900 to 13,900 in 3 months). Resale is about 18,500 or something (if that, and mine is fully loaded, except is it not an SS). I did take some negative equity with me, but when I was trying to get rid of my car, I couldn't give it away (or the dealers wanted me to). My car is a 2002.

Time to drive it as long as you like, then STRIP IT and build it into a KILLER race car!

That's where it's headed. That is why I wanted a hard top, stripper so badly. When it showed up on the lot 6 weeks later, I was pissed. Oh well. Maybe I can weld a roof on it.

Theres a stripper '04 GT on the Ford lot... I checked the price, with my employee discount it's $18,988. Thats pretty tempting, considering I could easily put 10k down if I sold my Camaro and my '93 GT.... but I vowed to focus on school for 2 more years, and a car payment doesn't help that any.

Would you buy this Camaro???

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/...Fifth_Reloaded/

I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat. GM needs to hire this guy pronto...

That's the one that I was talking about earlier. Like you, I'd give several non-vital body parts for that orange one.

Put an LS2 or LS6 with 400+hp in it, give it at least the option to have an independant rear suspension (even as aftermarket), and I'd pay $40k or so for it.

That is too COOL to ever be built, GMs bean counters will kill it!

Best part about that car is the rear. It's beautiful!! And that's really good, because with the right engine in that thing, that's the only view that people are ever going to see!

I ussually don't like the retro design, but that one is hot.

Let's start a new car company and build this thing!!! I think collectively, we know better than GM!!

And we can name it camaro since Camaro is probably trademarked and a lot of people spell it that way.

LMAO!!!

The problem is, almost everytime an enthusiast (car guy?) builds a car he winds up bankrupt. Now, Bob Lutz is a car guy and on his watch we did get the Viper (and we'll let the Prowler slide.... ). But, as a rule, car guys build cars for car guys. And there are just not enough car guys to keep themselves in business, or so it seems. As someone said earlier, we want "bling-free" road missiles that have enough grip to remove the paint stripes from the road in a corner even if it knocks out a few teeth in the process.

I'd buy one....

Phil, maybe we could call it "Cameo" as in a "cameo appearance" (though few would actually get it and even less may consider it funny ).

I've refrained from posting, but I couldn't stop myself.

I'm sorry, but after years of disappointment I refuse to believe that GM will do anything that will please me.