Hi folks! I was recently bitten by the "Let's build a race car" bug. I'm looking at a 3rd gen that's already gutted. I'm thinking about using a mild 350 (read inexpensive), TH350 trans, stock 9 bolt rear, and focus on suspension and brakes. Since it's already gutted, I was thinking about putting in a weld in roll cage and race seats. It's a T-Top car, would a cage help there? Would there be other issues related to T-Tops I should be concerned about?

It looks like this is the type of forum I was looking for. Are there any links to other build sites or forums where I can find more information on building up a race car? Thanks!

Hi John, welcome aboard and Merry Christmas!

Your buildup plans sound ok overall, but if it were me, I'd swap in a manual trans for better performance and durability. Automatics are OK, but are not the preferred choice of transmissions for roadracing or autocrossing.

Also, if you plan to race in a specific classification or category, you may want to read the class rules first before buying some components. That may save you some headaches later on. Most people on this board race under SCCA or NASA guidelines. Even if you don't plan on racing in a specific category, the safety section in either sanctioning body's rulebook would be a great reference to use for your buildup so you won't get turned away at your first event.

Take some time and read through the various sections of this site. Most of the sections contain permanent threads ("stickies") that have commonly used or requested info. That will help you when you start posting with requests for more specific information or topic discussion.

Enjoy!

Thanks! I've been checking the site out a bit. I can certainly see the SCCA influence here, which I am intersted in. I would like to be able to attend a variety of events. I got started in SCCA autocross several years ago and I want to get back into it. Although I'd like to attend events that have more run time, maybe even do some wheel to wheel events! So, I need to figure out where to start. Getting a rule book would be a good way to map out what I can and need to do.

I do prefer a manual transmission. My thinking is that TH350s are cheap and easy and fairly tough. I'm guessing I could get a TH350 for around $500. The car is an automatic car, so I would have the cost associated with converting everything over (flywheel, clutch, master cylinder, pedal, etc.) to contend with in addition to purchasing a manual transmission. I'm guessing $1000 - $1500 for a rebuilt 5 speed?

Is the durability of a manual really that much better than an automatic? I'm guessing about $3000 to put a manual in that car versus $800 - $1000 for an automatic.

You will probably find a whole manual trans car for $3K and part out what you don't want/need. That should get you all the right parts.

A built auto trans will cost more than $500. I had over $1K in my TH-350 with an off-the-shelf converter, and that was several years ago. However, if you put in a good-sized cooler, remote filter, and change the fluid fairly frequently, it should last a few events or a season. A shift kit and/or manual valve body will help. I don't have any experience with roadracing an auto trans but some others here may. I seem to remember Herb Adams roadraced a second-gen automatic Camaro back in the day though.

If you are interested in racing, then check out CMC in NASA. The other classes in SCCA with F-bods are considerably more expensive to build cars and may not have a big field for you to compete with. CMC is growing for a reason; in California we have 20 car fields on a regular basis. Spend time with any class you are interested in hanging out with the racers and asking questions. If I was you I'd buy a prepared car (set up for a race class) and save a TON of $ and set-up pains. Another advantage is that you can jump right in the car and start driving it, going to HPDEs and learning road racing instead of staring at that future race car, putting a big dent in your wallet and not getting any track time. You could keep the third gen as a spare. They are good to have!

Try the HPDEs before you get too fired up about racing, see if you like it. Some folks are very happy at that level - you can get your track fix without the competition and expense of a race schedule.

Welcome!

Just a little tranny info as someone else with a 3rd gen. I smoked my 700R4 the first time out, so I trust autos about as much as I trust Sally Struthers with a carton of snack cakes.

Anyway, when I started getting out of drag racing this past spring, I found someone willing to trade a stock rebuilt TH350 swap setup straight up for a full T5 swap. I think I had $450 in the TH350 setup. After that I had to go get a 1pc rear main seal flywheel (87+) which I found used for $35 used + $25 to surface it, $120 for a stock-quality clutch/PP/TO bearing, $5 pilot bushing, and that got the manual trans in the car. The hydraulics need to be replaced or at least put in a new line in, another $100 for LT1 setup ready to go from GM Parts direct. All together, I've spent a little over $800 on the swap (I needed a VSS too), but I would've spent at least that to build a decent automatic trans not to mention the extra maintenance cost of the automatic (a dozen quarts of fluid vs. 4 qts), torque converter, manual valve body, etc.

The only way (I can see) you could spend $3k to put a manual trans in one of these cars is if you had a built T56 or TKO put in, which you don't need unless you're making a lot more power. If you don't mind used, it's saved me a lot of money.

Thanks nape, I was thinking that a "built" T56 would be necessary. If a good junk yard T56 would hold up as well as an auto, and the parts required to put it together were reasonable, I would reconsider a manual.

The T56 gears will handle a lot of power.

It's mainly shifting that causes problems, and half of that is due to brutal drag race power shifting, though the synchros are inherently a bit marginal. Building one usually involves replacing the aluminum 3-4 fork with the Viper-spec iron fork, replacing the stamped keys in the synchros with billet steel, and replacing the blocking rings.

Beyond that, there are various heavy duty parts available (Viper output shaft, etc) for people that are drag racing with a LOT of power and traction (and shock).

You can also get some polishing and setup work done to smooth things out a bit, but that's up to you.

Basically, a new, stock T56 will be fine if you take care of it and don't manhandle the shifter. OTOH, a used one has probably been powershifted a lot and should probably get at least the basic fork and keys build.

Hey John,

I also think the auto thing is a bad idea for a dedicated track car....guys seem to eat them for lunch, and you can get by quite nicely with a stock T56 if you are not a beast with it....

As for the T-tops, I think most groups will want you to cover them as well. Alan Blaine here makes both fiberglass and carbon fiber models for this.

As for influence, I would say we are a NASA-centric group if anything...there are a few SCCA nuts like myself, but for the most part you will get good, quality NASA advice. And to be honest, if you are looking to "gently" get into road racing, NASA is probably a better bet. The SCCA is more strict/rigid/etc. and if you aren't shooting for a particular class, can be frustrating to "fit in"....

Anyway....have fun!

My first race car, an '84 Camaro Z28, was a t-top car. You have to have a specific type of rollcage with that (more bars to compensate) and you do not have to cover them in CMC. You run with them out. Also, you do have to wear arm restraints with your harness, which totally sucks along with the rain and sun that also beat down on you. As you can tell I much prefer the hard-top!

I am selling my 2002 Camaro with roll cage installed . You can look at this forum (classified) or
Look at and at Body kits group,
eBay Motors: 2002 Camaro with 10 pts. roll cage installed. (item 8025561913 end time Jan-06-06 13:02:07 PST)

If you interesting, please im me.

When I did my 5 speed swap in my 3rd gen (which was in 1993 or 94 when it wasn't too common, at least not where I lived), I went to the dealer and ordered everything but the flywheel (found a deal on a GMPP 16 lb unit), the gearbox ($500 from a salvage yard) and the clutch. I had very nearly $2k in my swap (1LE driveshaft, bought new and all the assorted parts). Maybe not quite $2k, but I was something over $1500 total (for a T5 swap.....there were really no T56's yet, at least none that I could afford).

Well, I guess it would be pretty easy to go over the $3k mark with a T56. I usually tend to think in my "do it cheap, used is fine" mindset when figuring prices.

Now, ordering things new for a car this old doesn't make a whole lot of sense anymore unless it's a wear item or it's broken, especially if it's going to be a track/AX whore. I can see how it would have been important in your application though where it would see street time.

As far as a aluminum DS, you can run the same DS that came with the car, so I don't consider that a necessary cost in the swap. Besides, I usually see a deal on a used one every month in the Chicagoland area so I wouldn't price a new one. I've owned 3 in the last year if that says anything. Replace the u-joints and you have a nice shaft for $100-125. Not sure if everywhere is like this, but it's sure nice to prey on the mainliners who are "upgrading" to steel "nitrous" shafts.

Just keep in mind that unless you are buying a T56 from a known seller and car, odds are high that it's been treated brutally.

Just check out how often people on ls1tech are going through transmissions. I think it's far less common problem among people who turn corners, partly because if we shifted like that we'd lose the tail. Mine was quite specifically damaged by a defective pressure plate, a different matter altogether.

I've got $2200 in my T56 retrofit. Just don't tell my wife.

It's a stocker from a 1994 Formula and it was in fine shape. No shift problems yet, but then again I don't powershift.