WHY?

You know what I do when I can't afford something. I don't buy it. Not some people if they can't afford it they just find a way to TAKE IT from someone who can.

And ANY excuse to do so is fair game. Even if it involved you neibors being homeless or dead.


I even heard that just now on the news that these morons were steeling guns and firing at national guard and aid choppers.


Sometimes I think it would be just easier to shoot people like this than to bother with the "justice system"


PUKE!

That is just really sad ...

Looting for food or water or even something to wear, might be semi-understandable.

But, home funishings, a new wardrobe ... no way ...

Yeah, it shows how really screwed up some people are! They need a good hard

I hadn't heard that, but damn! They are probably pissed off that they had to wait, and think shooting at their rescuers will somehow ... speed ... up ... things.

I just don't understand people sometimes.

Even my cats aren't that stupid. They have never yet confused the litter box with the food bowl.

It really taints my heart toward wanting to help these people when I here about stuff like this. As usual I'm sure this is only a few people. I can totally understand looting for food or water, but it's way too early for people to have run out of food by now. I heard one report that Marshall law was enforced; I can't believe it has come to that!

First you start off feeling sorry for everyone down there, then you get pissed when you hear about this. I saw clips of people wading through knee high water with big smiles on their faces and huge piles of clothes and electronics. It only takes a few to ruin how bad I feel for the rest of the victims.

... and, unfortunately, the worst is still yet to come.

Install a couple snipers on roof tops. If they are not carrying food/essential needs, shoot them. It won't take long for the looters to get the "right" idea after that starts.....

Ok, maybe a bit extreme, but these idiots are shooting cops. Why put our boys in harms way when you can "reach out and touch someone".

Sorry, it just irritates me when I see people taking advantage of a disaster for their own benefit. When everyone in the area needs to be pulling together, these morons are making it "every man for himself" and becoming part of the problem.

Oh well, I guess we can just keep arresting them.

I heard on the radio today that they are sending more troops to the area. I think they said it would make it a total of 25,000ish members of the armed forces to help with "relief", enforce curfews, and control looting.

Agree 100%



My point exactly. Actions like this make me hold onto any kind of donation or at least think twice about the amount I would give. I don't think I'm the only person who might feel that way and is why it's such a shame, because I'm sure there are a lot of people that are truly in need. Honestly I do feel for those who have lost so much; I'm not talking about houses, but loved ones.

I figure the smart ones already left. New Orleans being swamped isn't exactly a surprise to anyone alive for the last 100 years, so my level of compassion probably isn't as high as it should be. But then to have a cop shot in the head, two cops taking fire, a nurse robbed at a hospital, shots fired at a rescue helicopter, and fires set near the evacuation area, that just burns my ass.

Please don't hold back any donations guys, there are old people and poor people there with kids that could not get out, not to any choice of their own. And quite a few made the mistake of "riding it out," not having any idea what lay ahead for them. Lesson learned, however, they do not have food, money or a place to live. Many are hurt or have medical needs on top of this, not to mention the ones who have seen their loved ones die or just plain don't know about their loved ones at all. Some are still on their roofs right now! I'm going to give blood, that is something we can do, and give to the Red Cross or other legitimate charities. Saturday night Larry King will have a show on specifically what we can do to help.

As for the looting, it is a horrible, disrespectful thing in most circumstances. There are some exceptions though, like desparate folks who are hungry and are taking food. I saw one lady taking diapers, there is a difference between her and someone taking a stereo. I think the law should have a double penalty for those like the stereo and using guns for this kind of thing.

I really hope that many of the businesses and people who have made a life there think twice about moving back when this is all over. If the area I lived in was in danger of this level of destruction I'd be :leaving:

the amazing part is that they have now stopped rescue efforts due to increased violence. What is wrong with these people that they would shoot at the vehicles that are trying to rescue people. It boggles the mind.

Heard an interview of a lady in Miss. who was carrying out some food from a looted grocery store. She was in tears (real, or otherwise, I don't know) explaining that her and her family had nothing, and she was really sorry to be taking stuff from the store, but she was hungry. People like that, I feel for. If the store comes back, I hope she returns to try to pay them for some of the food she took.

On another note, I heard that people were looting stores, women, for the most part, were carrying out canned food, water and vegatables, while the men, for the most part were carrying out liquor, beer and cigarettes.

This will be an interesting study in how people act toward one another when those upholding the law aren't around to uphold it, and all the civil support systems are broken down.

Saw a guy in Miss. clearing out the remains from his house that had been hit with the storm surge. He was wearing what looked like a GP100 strapped to his waist. Yep, I'd probably carry my sidearm there, too.

It's really sad, but when you look at it the people that stayed are either:

1) Looters that stayed to do so
2) People that wanted to protect their property
3) People to poor to leave

I've seen a lot of people (on other boards) insult those who stayed and make it out like they deserved it. That really angers me that people could say such a thing about the victims. Anyone that does so is not an American in my opinion.

BTW, I'd carry a gun concealed there. If you carry it open I'd be afraid of being targeted because I'm a threat and/or for my weapon. I read where one national guardsman was shot in the leg for his rifle. However this has inspired me to purchase a Mossberg 590 once my para sells.

The sad thing is that there are "charities" that will either rip off contributors or who won't channel the money into the right areas.


I wish I had the money to physically do something to help. A bunch of gas, a boat, some water and a shotgun and you could probably rescue alot of folks....If you didn't get shot first.

BTW, Mathew Patterson (00 Trans AM) lives in New Orleans ....

What really got my blood going me tonight was the woman that was interviewed on Fox that complained that the MRE's they were given was "horrible" and that they had no hot food in the Superdome. Or the guy in the French Quarter complaining that the city cut utilities and cellphones.

This whole thing is unbelievable and the jerks that are shooting at the police / guardsmen should be shot. I know a little extreme but come on!!! I have a friend who has grew up in Miss. and lives in Ohio now she is sending goods such as toiletries and such to a shelter her mother and sister are volunteering at, over 18,000 refugees .... she is bypassing the charities because they don't always get the goods to the places you want them to go.

Brad and I found that out when we volunteered for a military support group we'd send packages to the troops and they'd sit in the airplane hangers for months possibly never being used by our troops.
God help all the people down there. I hope their suffering will end soon and they get the help they need.

I feel the looters who are stealing guns, stereos, jewelry and Nikes should be shot. I like the sniper idea. This whole mess is making me think I should buy a few weapons of my own. I have never been a big fan of guns but I am a hell of a shot. Most of my buddies are hunters. I don't want to be stuck in a bad situation when the big one hits Calli.

I spend about as much time and money on my firearms and range time and ammo as I do on my car. Actually, so far this year, I think I've spent more on guns/ammo/range time than I have on the car, probably by a wide margin. I really enjoy spending time at the range, I find it relaxing (oddly enough) and I am a reasonably decent shot with a handgun (though that may be the fault of my expensive taste in weapons more than my abilities....).

it's on what's going on over there i live in san antonio,tx and there are a whole lot of people from other there to stay in the alamodome and here in town they have been collecting donations to give to the people from new orleans when they get here.i guess that's one way to make sure people get what they need just invite them over and make sure they get the donations.

Hopefully this doesn't offend anyone. Another aspect from a reporter.....long, but I think worth the read:

An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare State

An Objectivist Review

by Robert Tracinski | The Intellectual Activist

September 2, 2005

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure
out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them,
because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there.
The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are
confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials
is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation
to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop
the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists,
natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people
pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors,
nurses and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to
do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they
are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did
not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but
about rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by
federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane
Katrina This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has
gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not
happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades.
Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be
confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave
in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in
other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been
saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even
what we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion.
They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously
organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We
are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than
waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this
a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light
had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve
as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and
large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists,
knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and
police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen
poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened
Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill
orders.

"'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,'
she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops
know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if
necessary and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this
article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on
an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of
squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks
exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for
an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to
storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers
to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack
the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help
them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a
sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox
News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She
studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in
the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes,
one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The
projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and
irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a
whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the
informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New
Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so
who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects.
Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from
CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the
prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose.
There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is,
a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing
projects, and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when
the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people
from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected,
over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness.
The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent
administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of
the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the
city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city
corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow
of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political
supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact,
some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for
example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted
an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from
the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos
on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the
chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of
the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is
behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond
to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome
the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the
government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a
disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about
saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything.
Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how
they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before.
Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is
a way of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains
and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness
that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is
reporting.

I agree with the part that the amount of people on welfare is a problem. Apparently 30% of New Orleans was living at the poverty level before this all happened.

last post was Aug 26
hope he is fine.

Personally, I think all the finger pointing ON BOTH "SIDES" is getting a little old...

I am NO BUSH FAN, but all the crap he is taking for this is S.T.U.P.I.D.......on the other hand, he hasn't really rose to the occaision in my oppinion either....

The actions of the Mayor and Govenor are MUCH WORSE than anything Bush did.....they seem to be incompetent....for all those in the media, hopping mad at the response, they need to take a closer look a little CLOSER to the problem....local governments FAILED MISSERABLY here....the fact that the Federal Government is acting slowly should be a secondary issue...

The Feds act upon recommendations by the locals, don't they?

If the Mayor called the Gov asking for help on Tuesday, the Gov waited to make the call till Wednesday, the troops started roling in on Thursday ...

I'm really not sure what the expectation is.

The breaking levys were unforseen ... a known problem, yes, but is it feasible to have thousands of Red Cross, FEMA and military staged in Baton Rouge just in case?

This is definitely a hind sight is 20/20 kind of ordeal.

...this kinda stuff is why I EVERY time someone from the "other" side of the country speaks of how they could NEVER live with the fear of earthquakes...

...lemme see....

We get earthquakes once every COUPLE of years...a "serious" one every few decades.....

Hurricanes happen 2 to 3 times EVERY YEAR...typically enough to cause some type of damage every time...

Tornadoes happen for an entire "season" each and every year and tear stuff up all the time...

....I'll take my chances with earthquakes EVERY time...

Huh fox news huh.

Funny that they concentrate on the looting more than anyone. I was talking to a truck driver yesterday who was near NO a couple days ago, watching LOCAL news. And while the reporter for the local news was interveiwing someone he was told that a fox new reporter had reported hearing gun shots. The local, reporter and the guys he interviewed was standing just a few yards away and they both heard nothing.


OBVIOUSLY there was chaos going on. I also think that it was blown out of proportion as an excuse to drag feet.


I really won't respond to this thread anymore because it's turning into a political discussion. There isn't anything I can discuss and feel more strongly about, and I'm sure I will only make people mad and I damn well sure know the same will happen to me.


But in closing, I would like to point out that no matter what anyone says, those people were NOT helped because they were poor, and because the majority were black.

You better beleive that if hollywood has a major earthquake those people will get help when they need it.


One other thing. It didn't expose the welfare state. It exposed US as americans. Not only are we an un-ruly bunch of war mongrels by going into other countries for phony reasons, we also act like hooligans on our soil. And on top of that it showed just how ready we are for a disaster.

I REALLY think the whole "...we didn't help these folks BECAUSE they are poor/black..." is JUST ABOUT THE BIGGEST LOAD OF CRAP I have heard lately...this from a bleeding heart LIBERAL who went to UC Berkeley...

The response was/is poor because the mechanisms/infrastructure to respond to the problem where NOT IN PLACE...despite EVERYONE ON THE PLANET KNOWING New Orleans was in deep doodoo someday because of their levy system....now was this fact INFLUENCED by the lack of money/resources they had due to being a "poor black community"...sure....but this is from YEARS of neglect.....not GWB's fault....just his mess to deal with...and to be clear...I think his response has been LACKLUSTER at best....but not "criminal" as some would say...

Hollywood WOULD respond better, because they have the money/resources/infrastructure in place to respond to such a disaster...at least better than NO did.....is THAT GWB's fault???? Is THAT the federal governments fault??? No, they spent the time/money/effort to be better prepared....would the fed step in...yes...would they do it better/faster/more because LA is full of rich white men.....PLEASE! The actions/plans of the local governments are AT LEAST as responsible for the problems there...

I'm out too....I just can't STAND all this big brother isn't helping enough crap...they can only do so much....they are not doing it well right now, but enough with the conspiracy crap... :leaving:

I agree with Randy as far as don't blame Bush for this and I'm not a Bush supporter BTW. I think it is the responcability of the state government to have supplies in place to aid in the situation. Something of this scale is obvously too much for the state to handle all alone, but they should at least be able to get food and water to enough places for a few days. At least long enough for the Feds to react. I also don't want the President being concerned about each levy, bridge, tunnel, railroad, ect around the US that could be a problem. I would much rather leave those matters up to local Government and have the President focus on more national and global problems.

Trying to help refugees that are shooting back adds a whole new twist that I don't want particularly want local governments to be too prepared for.

You mean the out pouring of aid from blue-collar grunts like myself? You mean the good people down there who did everything they could to help one another out of chaos? You mean the charitable organizations tht beat the Feds to the disaster area? You mean the Cops, the Firefighters that stayed on the job not knowing the welfare of their own families???? IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN? If so, you're damn right it exposed us as Americans. And we're looking pretty damn good right now. BTW, the "A" in American is ALWAYS upper case.

Actually, I think he was talking about the morons looting, the idiots shooting at the rescuers. The goofball that was firing on the hospital evacuation teams.

Yes, there have been many of my fellow countrymen who have fought the good fight and done the right thing, even when they didn't have to. But it's hard to evacuate people when idiots are shooting at you and generally acting like a group of well armed children.

Some of the stuff going on down there was possibly a new low for our country. The rest of the stuff is a great high point (the help).

In the face of 9/11, New Yorkers were kind, freindly and really pulled together. This is New York city, not a place known for being terribly friendly at times. But, they were smart enough to not tear the city apart. This was the polar opposite.

But, maybe that's just what the news wants us to see.

We usually don't do political discussions here. All I'll ask is that everyone keep it civil.

You're probably right. I read that the jails in the area released their inmates because they had no way of evacuating them. That can explain some of the lunacy that went on. Of course, the media concentrates on the "Big Story", which was the looting, shootings, etc, and ignores the people helping each other, wanting nothing in return. Sorry to get on my soap box.

Yes, my heart goes out to both the public employees and private citizens who were/are doing what they could to help others with no way to check on or help their own families.

Yeah....the same in Iraq. Working for the Army, I hear all the good going on, but the media shows all the bad.

Well, I've read this thread and have decided to post to it. Here's my view on the whole sad affair from the storm to the looting to the poor response by the government (all levels).

1. The state KNEW the storm was coming. By that I mean public officials and private citizens. The Mayor and Governor were not only slow to react, but required prompting from the President to take action. Many private citizens purposely ignored the warnings and stayed behind.

2. The city and state did not have a disaster preparedness plan in place, or if they did, did not implement it. As a result, hundreds of school and public buses sat idly by instead of being used to relocate personnel to higher ground or out of harm's way, and hundreds of criminals were simply released vice transported to another jail. Released criminals = looting, rape, murder....

3. The levys were designed to only hold under a Category 3 storm, not a Category 4 or higher. This has been a known fact for decades. Blaming the current President (whoever he is) for poor levy design/maintenance is incorrect.

4. The city was built in a below-sea level area roughly 200 years ago. Looks like the law of averages finally caught up, unfortunately.

5. Looters should be shot, period. One's integrity should not change just because a natural disaster occurred.

6. Give to reputable charities. And I do mean GIVE. Not just money, but clothes, blood (thanks Julie!) and furniture. Many people lost everything. Whether they were "good people" or "bad people" should be immaterial at this point.

7. Take notice of what didn't happen at the local, state, and federal level, and develop an emergency plan for yourself and your family. Design the plan around the following factors:

a. Develop an escape route (and alternates). Figure out the best roads to use. Sometimes they won't be the interstates, as they may be clogged.

b. Using the escape route, establish a meeting point/place. If need be, establish an alternative method of signaling as a backup in case cell towers/land lines are down.

c. At home, keep containers of essential supplies at the ready for easy loading into your vehicle. Wouldn't hurt to keep a couple of water bottles and breakfast bars in the trunk or spare tire void as well.

d. Keep your important papers (wills, deeds, ET slips, suspension setups, inventory of personal effects) in a lockable strongbox that you can carry.

e. Also keep cash in the strongbox. Decide on an amount and leave it in there.

f. Get a generator that will support your household's electrical load (most on this board have a generator already, IIRC).


Frankly, if the city and state governments had reacted in a more proactive manner, a great majority of the problems post-storm would have been eliminated or significantly reduced. And there was no slow-down in providing assistance just because of a person's race. That is just untrue, and the statement itself wreaks of racial bias on its own. It's sad enough that there are poor people in New Orleans, or anywhere, but it is downright ignorant to use race in this case. The reason the majority of the people shown on TV (on any channel) were black is because a higher percentage of blacks lived in downtown NO than whites. That ain't MY fault. And the media could do a better job of reporting both good and bad news. Right now, the big three (CBS, NBC, ABC) predominantly report from a negative viewpoint, and also report from a predominantly anti-Republican, anti-Christian, anti-White Male viewpoint. We would all be better served if race was ignored and not used as a crutch standpoint just because it is a convenient perspective to hide behind.

I sincerely hope that everyone is able to recover and move forward from this tragedy, and that improvements will be implemented to reduce the potential impact of future storms.

The Wall Street Journal
September 6, 2005
COMMENTARY


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Blame Amid the Tragedy
By BOB WILLIAMS
September 6, 2005; Page A28

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most
impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government,
rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am
fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency
response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for
accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and
avoid those most responsible -- local and state officials who failed to do
their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly
lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen
Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to
the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are
charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to
disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national
disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established
evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in
the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an
evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan.
Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by
Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.

The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations
is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive
Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize
all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas."
But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without
the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected
persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people
either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area
impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the
Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.

In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in
past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and
ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact
with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died
because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which
mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan
clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response.
Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also.
However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist
attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes),
they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid
upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into
the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency
plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local
government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the
hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay
focused on the jobs for which they were elected -- and not on the deadly
game of passing the emergency buck.

Mr. Williams is president of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation, a free
market public policy research organization in Olympia, Wash.
URL for this article: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1125966...8332256,00.html
Copyright 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved
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Politics over duty

This is a post from a reporter in Merritt Is, FL, a reporter who's been researching what went on before the storm hit.
~~~~~~
I think all of Mayor Nagin's pomp and posturing is going to bite him hard in the near future as the lies and distortions of his interviews are coming to light.

On Friday night before the storm hit Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center took the unprecedented action of calling Nagin and Blanco personally to plead with them to begin MANDATORY evacuation of New Orleans and they said they'd take it under consideration. This was after the NOAA buoy 240 miles south had recorded 68' waves before it was destroyed.

President Bush spent Friday afternoon and evening in meetings with his advisors and administrators drafting all of the paperwork required for a state to request federal assistance (and not be in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act or having to enact the Insurgency Act).



Just before midnight

Friday evening the President called Governor Blanco and pleaded with her to sign the request papers so the federal government and the military could legally begin mobilization and call up.



He was told that they didn't think it necessary for the federal government to be involved yet. After the President's final call to the governor she held meetings with her staff to discuss the political ramifications of bringing federal forces. It was decided that if they allowed federal assistance it would make it look as if they had failed so it was agreed upon that the feds would not be invited in.

Saturday before the storm hit the President again called Blanco and Nagin requesting they please sign the papers requesting federal assistance, that they declare the state an emergency area, and begin mandatory evacuation.


After a personal plea from the President, Mayor Nagin agreed to order an evacuation, but it would not be a full mandatory evacuation, and the governor still refused to sign the papers requesting and authorizing federal action.

In frustration the President declared the area a national disaster area before the state of Louisiana did so he could legally begin some advanced preparations. Rumor has it that the President's legal advisers were looking into the ramifications of using the insurgency act to bypass the Constitutional requirement that a state request federal aid before the federal government can move into state with troops - but that had not been done since 1906 and the Constitutionality of it was called into question to use before the disaster.

Throw in that over half the federal aid of the past decade to New Orleans for levee construction, maintenance, and repair was diverted to fund a marina and support the gambling ships.



Toss in the investigation that will look into why the emergency preparedness plan submitted to the federal government for funding and published on the city's website was never implemented and in fact may have been bogus for the purpose of gaining additional federal funding as we now learn that the organizations identified in the plan were never contacted or coordinating into any planning - though the document implies that they were.

The suffering people of New Orleans need to be asking some hard questions as do we all, but they better start with why Blanco refused to even sign the multi-state mutual aid pack activation documents until Wednesday which further delayed the legal deployment of National Guard from adjoining states.



Or maybe ask why Nagin keeps harping that the President should
have commandeered 500 Greyhound busses to help him when according to his own emergency plan and documents he claimed to have over 500 busses at his disposal to use between the local school busses and the city transportation busses - but he never raised a finger to prepare them or activate them.

This is a sad time for all of us to see that a major city has all but been destroyed and thousands of people have died with hundreds of thousands more suffering, but it's certainly not a time for people to be pointing fingers and trying to find a bigger dog to blame for local corruption and incompetence. Pray to God for the survivors that they can start their lives anew as fast as possible and we learn from all the mistakes to avoid them in the future.

Last week I was at the local Wally World. There was a group collecting donations in the form of goods, and passed out a flyer of suggested goods to purchase.

My donation was a box of size 3 diapers. I figured there may be some little one the size of my daughter in need of diapers - and if someone did shoot-and-loot to get them, at least they can only be used on a baby!

The looters are taking the goods (whatever they are) and using it as barter or selling it for drugs, sex, liquor, or perhaps just to make money off of other storm-affected people.

I had to read your post a couple of times before I caught this...

There were a lot of good ideas in there.

Want to make your blood boil?

http://mfile.akamai.com/12948/wmv/vod.ibsy...946889.300k.asx

Takes some big men to tackle an ~80 year old woman. What scares me most is that there is little reaction to this.

Not to mention the fact that they're disarming everyone down there.

Sorry to bring politics to the board, but personal freedom crosses all boundaries.

They SHOULD be disarming everone. It will help to make a volotile situation less so.

Personal freedom's don't include shooting someone for kicks. And the guy who is a law abiding citizen, with a registered weapon isn't going to be on the streets anyway. All he's concerned about is a roof over his families head.....


The right to bear arms is a "personal freedom" that is ALWAYS taken to extremes by folks with a single agenda. Those willing to to sell their soul to the devil to push their "personal freedom" agenda. I hope the NRA DIES. It's what they do. They push certain politicians REGARDLESS of what the politician has planned for other agendas.


Go tell the 100's of thousands who have lost their job, and the people who drive for a living and can't afford to now that they should have a right to own an assault rifle.


Anyone who votes on a single issue shouldn't be allowed to vote. Which is what the majority of NRA members do.


Of all the issues at hand I can't fucking beleive that the right to bear arms comes up all the damn time. I feel we should have the right. I'm planning to buy an SW 460 or 500 revolver in the near future, but that right is the LEAST of my concern. And with things going on in this country now, it should be the LEAST of EVERYONES concern.

The law abiding citizen's might willingly give up their weapons... leaving only the 'looters' with guns.

I'd be keeping mine to provide some measure of safety for my family.

I don't think anyone can speak for how"most NRA members" vote. Sure they push their political agenda. So does the UAW, UMW, USWA, NOW, AARP, etc, etc. And I find their agendas questionable as well. I paid no mind to the political opinions of "Steelabor" when I was a member, and I pay no mind to the "American Rifleman's" now. I vote for the politician that I feel has the best interests of this country in mind, regardless of his party, or his position on guns. And I am an NRA member.

Don't forget the abortion crowd (ok, the anti-abortion crowd). My sister in law voted for president strictly because he was anti abortion. That was the only reason she voted for him. One issue. He could have been a recovering axe murderer (who kills axes, just to watch them die), but as long as he was anti abortion, she was not voting for the other guy.

The NRA diehards do push an agenda, so do the abortion people, the anti Iraq people, the.....

Everyone has an agenda, do I have to agree with them? Nope. Does it make one group worse than others? Not really. Yes, the NRA can get a bit extreme. So can Cindy Shehan, and the NRA seems more mentally stable. I work for a union, and I don't give a damn what they told me to vote for. I guess I just don't take direction well.

Also, "registered weapon" is a bit of a mis statement. They are not registered. The manufacturer will know what wholesaler he sold them to. The wholesaler will know what dealer he sold a weapon to. The dealer will know the first owner of the weapon that he sold it to. They will then knock on your door and ask if you still own it and if not, who you sold it to. And they go from there. There is not a registry of weapons/owners (unless local laws require it, such as our Columbus, OH assault weapons ban requiring you to register your previously owned "pre ban" weapons with them to grandfather the ability to own them....no thanks).

If I were in NO, I'd be there armed. Sorry, that's just how it goes. I'm not looking to cause trouble, but I have a reasonable expectation that it will find me if I'm there long enough.

In a perfect world maybe. But the only people handing over their weapons are the honest individuals-they are the ones that get hurt.



And how can he protect his family when we disarm him? Of course personal freedom doesn't include shooting people for kicks.




I suppose the freedom of speech is also taken to extremes. The right to bear arms is part of the constitution-it's not something to be turned on and off at your own whim.




Assault rifle is a media term referencing a fully automatic weapon which isn't legal to own anyways. Call a rose by another name and show clips of automatic weapons and it's easy to push your own agenda. But that is a whole other arguement.



I'm an NRA member and I don't care for Bush. The notion that someone shouldn't have the right to vote because of how they vote on one issue is absurd. I don't think I need to say more regarding that. It's a slippery slope and before you know it a steak knife is an assault weapon-ask the people across the pond.



My rights as a human being are always my number one concern. I was born with the right to freedom and the right to defend myself. The Constitution does not grant me any rights (notice they are NOT privileges) it enumerates them. If someone comes to my door looking to disarm me, a law-abiding citizen, in the middle of a disaster there will be hell to pay. The news journalists have large corporations that have dipped into their pockets to hire armed security contractors to protect them in New Orleans. Obviously they don't feel the police have control of the situation, given their security guards, but they insist we lay down our arms. How is the poor man supposed to protect himself and his family? It's obvious that some people believe these rights only belong to certain people.

I know there will be a sh!tstorm because of this, but I haven't cussed anyone and was legitimately bringing up an issue that I feel is of great importance in this disaster.