Last fall, GM announced a reduction in GTO production and had to offer large rebates on this brand new model to sell off inventory

In December, GM had a 301 day supply of SSR's on hand.

Then the XLR gets a production cut from 23 to 12 a day. There's a 200 day supply of them out there. Cadillac hoped to sell 6,000 annually, but through 18 months, sold just 4,744.

February, GM decides to cut $1500-$2000 off the sticker mid-year on Trailblazers/Envoys/Rainiers and currently has 0% for 60 months to get them selling again. TrailBlazer sales fell 46% compared with January 2004. Envoy sales were off 52% and Rainier 27% according to Autodata reports.

Then for March, the factory that produces the LaCrosse & Grand Prix is shutting down for a week.

Then the earnings forecast for 2005 drops 80%. Stocks drop to 8 year low.

I think this goes back to cutting the Camaro and Firebird out of the lineup.

GM is "hurtin' for certain" these days...they just don't make S%$T I would consider buying....

EXCEPT the Vette, the sporty Caddies, and a truck....

ALL OTHER CARS THEY MAKE....:BARF:

....it's finally catching up to them....unfortunately...

I think there is a lot at work here.

Consider that everyone is used to $50,000 rebates and 0%. If I kill off that rebate on the first of next month, I have to convince the public that the car with such a deal is suddenly worth 50k more than it is today. Does that make sense? The rebates drop the percieved value of the product in the consumers mind and once you've done that, good luck getting them to pony up full price when it was "cheap" last week.

The weak economy caused the manufacturers to get creative in order to sell cars and stay in business. This has caused an expectation among consumers that cars should be this cheap. If they discount a car $6,000, I am going to assume that they are still making a profit on it (it does not matter if they are or not, I'll assume that as a consumer. Nobody sells under cost, right? even if they make it up in financing at something over 0%). So, if I am asked to pay full price next month, I will assume that GM wants to make $6,000 profit on my car purchase. I don't feel that GM should make 6k per car and I won't buy the car. So, as they have these rebates "ending", sales fall off (the last time GM killed the rebates that I saw data on, sales dropped 48% in the next 10 days, so back came the rebates). I don't know how they will get out of this, but I don't think the Camaro/Firebird has much bearing on it (I could be wrong).

I agree with Randy, other then the vette, some caddy's, and the big truck/SUV's I wouldn't touch anything else. Also GM doesn't have a low budget performance car (~20k) that the base Z28 was.

Sure they do, they have that abomination of a cavalier with the wing and the full "fast and furious" option kit for all the kids. That's performance these days. If it comes with clear tail lights, a fart can and a tri-plane wing, it has to be fast. If it were just a Civic, GM wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.

As far as SUV's, the offerings from Caddy are Fugly (and I really don't like the new cars, look like they were chopped out with an axe). The dressed up version of the Avalanch, complete with "tug boat trim" (bodywork) is even worse than the Chevy version. The Escalade is just as bad, buy a Suburban and spare us the ugly.

I agree, my next one will probably have to be a Corvette. I'm starting to think 2004 Z06's look very good (gently used, if there is such a thing). Or, back to a 3rd gen to play with.

Otherwise, a BMW 330Ci or Audi S4 (M coupe.....Mmmmmm) are climbing towards the top of my list. I'm not a fan of most Japaneese cars (who needs reliability anyway?), but I might go back to Germany for my next one. Unless something changes or I decide on a new Corvette, I don't think I'll be buying anything GM anytime soon (maybe a truck, but I'd probably buy a Ford or Dodge).

The worst thing is they Chevy calls it by a different name, but it still looks so much like a cavalier.

You can't polish a turd.

It's sad that they are pushing the Saturn Redline as their performance compact and not even the Cavalier. Not that either of them are very impressive, but pushing Saturn? Strange.

.....I don't think you'll find bliss in Germany....at least not with a BMW and from what I have heard of the problems at the other German giants...

I had a moment of weakness a couple of years ago and broke down and bought a SWEET 530 for my wife...it was a dealer car for 6 months and was lowered just a touch...all the badges were gone, it had M5 wheels on it, etc., etc......it was as nice as you can go in a BMW WITHOUT going M3 or M5....most people thought IT WAS an M5...

DAMN THING RAN GOOD FOR ONE FREAKIN' MONTH THE ENTIRE TWO YEARS I OWED THE POS....

Went through two dealers, BMW North America, and BMW in the "mutherland" ...rebuilt the motor once and the heads TWICE!! before they figured out it was a $30 cam timing sensor off of the motor....when I bitched as to how they missed that FOR TWO YEARS...

I was told....."This is your first BMW isn't it? These cars are VERY complicated machines, and things of this nature are not uncommon..." I watched the BMW N.A. rep give the same B.S. to two other PISSED customers right behind me....as I walked out, both said they were trading their cars in the next weekend on a Volvo and an Audi. I myself traded it in a week later on the Escalade....STILL the nicest vehicle we have ever owned....if only my wife could have gotten over the "I don't like driving a truck..." thing...

[/RANT]

....sorry BMW's REALLY piss me off!

When I bought my Camaro, I received an email from GM asking my opinion of their product line, and what other GM vehicles I owned. My response was that I owned a '73 GT Vega I bought new, and a '69 C-10. I also asked why in hell they went to all the trouble to make sheetmetal for the SSR when they could have made a retro '69 Camaro, a '55 Bel Aire, a '70 Chevelle, etc, just as easily. At least they could have made an SSR Panel Wagon. No more emails.....I think they thought I was being a smart ass. I thought Lutz would turn things around.

I was kidding about the Camaro/Firebird thing, but the list of attributable faults is so long....

Rebates are certainly a huge issue. They are a nice advert once, but then they cheapen the car, and then you can't get away from them.

Pricing is an issue, as noted with the $2000 MSRP drop in some Trailblazer/Envoys. I think it can be reasonably argued the GTO and SSR were overpriced.

Stigma of poor overall quality from prior decades. It's going to take a lot of time to overcome the perception of lesser quality, that's assuming they are near Honda/Toyota standards now.

Sourcing Chinese engines (personal lament). I was hoping to replace my wife's Bravada with an Equinox, as she likes the ride height of an SUV, and I like throwing the dog in the back along with camping gear. But don't think I can with the Chinese motor, especially when its cousin, the Saturn VUE gets a Honda engine, built in Ohio, that comes with 50 more hp and better fuel mileage.

Bad sales forecasting (see the original post)

Interior quality with cheap plastics and plenty of squeaks.

Interior design has not been one of GM's strengths in recent times.

They're still making overweight cars. The SSR ended up as a pig, and with a lot less hp than initially speculated.

Seen the HHR? It's a PT Cruiser style ride, complete with throwback looks and 4 banger on a compact car chassis, that's arriving 5 years after the PT Cruiser first started cruising the streets. That's what I call behind the curve.

GM was supposed to be at the forefront of hybrid/electric design with the EV1, but the first hybrid success is the Honda Insight and the Toyota Prius. Then Ford rolls out a hybrid compact SUV just one year after Chevy finally launches a respectable compact SUV. And what does GM do in response, delay the launch of the hybrid VUE.

I have to agree. GM has very little I would consider buying right now. Most of the SUV's are way over weight, under powered, suck off road and in the snow, get bad milage and aren't much to look at. Of course this can be said of almost all SUV's built today, not just GM. I've never been a small car person and I can't afford a 'vette or even a GTO right now. The less expensive larger car offerings are just boring, under powered and handle crappy.

I would like to go test drive the new Dodge Magnum and Charger. At least in concept, I like them. Rear drive, V8, a real back seat and a good trunk/cargo area makes them look practical and maybe even fun. I also like the looks of the new Mustangs.

I will be in the market for a new daily driver soon and even if I could afford a new car, it would probably not be a GM. I'll probably buy a used Cherokee or Grand Cherokee, '97 or newer.

That said, I plan to keep the Camaro SS and my wifes TA for long time.

Just don't get it. Enthusiasts, like those on this and other GM product based boards, the auto press, and half the people wandering the streets realize what's lacking in GM's products and thinking. Aren't the high $ suits supposed to be at least as savy as "Joe Average"? Hard to believe that they're not consciously trying to fail. Just don't get it!

Given the choice between a Kobalt/Malibu/Monte Carlo and a WRX...

...and we wonder why sales slump....

Randy,

I fully understand the German car issues. I've owned 4 brand new VW's since 2000 (3-2000's and a 2004). All of the 2000's had bad O2 sensors from the dealer (when new) and they were on national backorder.

The first 2000 Golf had the alarm quit working within 3 weeks and was ok after that (didn't stay long).

The 2000 Jetta lost the wastegate controller at 28,000 miles.

The GTI VR6 broke a tranny mount, the dealer pulled the trans, rebuilt/upgraded it, screwed up 5th gear and took 5 weeks for the first rebuild. Then, the mass air meter died at 28k and they wanted to charge me for it. While it was there, I asked them to fix 5th gear this time. 3 weeks later, I got it back. The next day, the light was on (check engine). They fixed the trans, reset the code on the MAF and left all the hoses from the air box dangling behind the motor. I had another dealer fix the MAF (for free, but it's a porsche, audi, vw, lotus, rolls royce, etc dealer. They want my return business, no matter how much I make in life).

There were other issues as well, but I'm used to the fact that they don't run for long. My Camaro has been the most reliable car we've owned out of the last 6 new cars from 2000 on. All it's needed is a set of water pump gaskets at 48,000 miles (I know of another 2002 car that had the same thing happen) Sad, isn't it?

And, I just bought a 2004 GTI. The drivers side window fell out of the frame and into the door while my wife was leaving work. Had to drive 25 miles with the window down on a 25 degree day to get to the dealer to get it fixed. It had 7,500 miles on it at the time (4 months old). So, I'm curious to see what breaks next.

As I said, who needs reliablilty.....

Yikes!

I just heard that about VW's.....I had em in the past and loved em...when we were looking to replace the "truck" for my wife a few months ago, I test drove the V8 Toureg, and that thing WAS A ROCKET....handled nice and tight....I was so close to convincing my wife to get one....but then all my car shop buddies began bad mouthing VW quality and all the problems they were seeing.....this surprised me! So we didn't get it...

...gotta ask....why keep buying VW when EVERY one has been a headache??? I am a reasonable guy, but when I get screwed....I cross that business/car/person off my list for pretty much eternity...

I don't mind the look and price of the new SS Cobalt. I think it will have a chance to do well with the younger crowd. Too bad it ain't RWD. It could be fun car.

However, I had occassion to follow a new car transport today, and I saw what I was sure was some form of a Hyundai. It wasn't until I passed the truck that I realized the Hyundai was a new Buick. Eeeek That thing is UGLY! In my view, GM is really loosing it when they match Hyundai for ugly. Geez I can remeber the old Impalas and Belaires of the mid 60's. They had a ton of beautiful cars back then.

You know, all of you missed one of the biggest contributors to GM's demise. The cost of their pensions and the like for retired employees is astronomical. I seem to remember for every car they sell about $1500 of it goes to paying for their employee's pensions and healthcare. Ford is also paying a high price for their employee benefits but they apparently budgeted much more accurately for it. Regardless of what many of you seem to think the profit margin for a OE is not very high at all on most of their vehicles (except Escalades and the like )

I don't think GM, Chrysler or Ford have pensions for new employees anymore. I think they all stopped at least 5 years ago.

Toyota, Honda, etc. don't have that to bog them down.

I have to admit DCX is doing VERY well right now, making cars that compete in niche markets and selling more than they can produce. Within 2 weeks of releasing the 300C SRT8 for orders at the dealers there were already over 10,000 orders with deposits. Heck, we had only figured we'd make about that many in the first year. Now, we're playing catch up. DCX plants can't even come close to making enough 300Cs (5.7L). Every one of them that leaves the plant right now is sold. Our engine plant that makes the 5.7L is working 2 assembly lines for 3 shifts a day to try to keep up. Even Business Week just rated DCX as the company within the Big 3 that has the best business plan for future success. It's refreshing actually.

I certainly do wish GM a quick turnaround, but financially they're in serious trouble, and unless they get on the ball soon and make some car designs that really turn heads it won't get any better.

The "new" Magnum is funny to me. Ads are saying inovation, I say the rebirth of the station wagon.

I agree. It's a station wagon. It's a far sight cooler than any other station wagon out there though. Drive a SRT version and you'd understand the appeal.

Mike, I don't disagree with you. My point earlier is that if they can run a $5,000 rebate, the general public will assume there is that much profit in each car and they don't want the manufacturers making $5k on them alone. It's a perception, even if it's wrong. Redneck logic or something like that. People don't believe that companies will sell things under cost, so it must have $5k profit in it, right?

Well....

My wife (GF at the time, in 2000) wanted a car. I didn't want a Corolla in the family (I really don't like Japaneese cars, not sure why. Great cars, I just don't want one.) so I took her across the street to the VW dealer. We bought a base 115 hp, 2.0 liter Golf (in 2000). Nice little car.

She got a better job about 4 months later and the 4.52 (deep 4 something) final drive was holding that car to about 22 mpg and she always wanted a silver Jetta. So, we bought a 1.8t jetta for her, I took the golf. The 1.8t got much better mileage and I liked the extra torque/hp. I ran an autocross in the Golf (took 2nd in H stock at my first event on factory rubber) and traded it on a GTI VR6 on Wednesday (2 cars in a week, my salesman loves me).

So, we got through 3 before we really realized there was a trend.

#4. We had traded the Jetta on a Mazda Protege 5 wagon (neat car, needs more power). My wife liked it, but really wanted a GTI (like my old one). One day, she leaves work because she's ill. 1/2 way home, she threw up all over the dash. I ran home from work and found the car parked outside in 90 degree heat with the windows up (Ewwwww). I got everything cleaned up except (I have a strong stomach) what ran down behind the airbag (and turned on the airbag light and had the horn stuck on for a while). The car was clean, but it didn't smell so good. So, we added many air freshners and traded it for a new GTI (like she wanted) in hopes that this one will be better. So far, the window is the only thing that's been an issue. That is how we got to #4.

So, basically, I'm a moron.

And, if you ever get sick and are going to be ill, aim for the passengers side floormat. It's much easier to clean up.

There is a shop in Virginia that works on VW (independent). Their motto:

"Volkswagon, love the car, hate the company".

I just bought a new truck a few months ago and I went with Dodge, so far it has been a real good truck. 21,000 miles and not 1 problem. The only thing I would buy from GM is a Vette, GTO, or an SSR.
I do love my 98 SS and has been bullet proof so far. I have 61,000 miles on it and its been to the dealer once for a new rearend at 150 miles. They forgot to bolt up the brakes properly at the factory and something broke in the rearend. Considering the hard driving I put my Camaro through I am very happy worth it.

they used to be innovative and take risks... they just don't do it anymore.
they need to get their act together and show some inovation.
not just follow the crowd.

The pension problem (and it's a BIG problem) has been around the news for a few years, but that could be considered more of a symptom than the problem. If GM was selling cars (not just trucks) and doing so successfully without resorting to such costly incentives, then the pension cost would be easier to cover.

It still comes down to generating sales and profit to cover your expenses. Bringing out flops, late entries and inferior designs doesn't cut it.

Have had very few problems with my 99 Z; 59K miles since buying new. If I were to buy a new GM car, it would be a Vette, followed by a GTO. I can't stand any other current car's styling. It makes me think the people who designed the Pontiac Aztek took over the entire Chevy line. It only gets worse; the 2006 Monte Carlo and Impala will get an LS-derived engine (V8) but remain FWD.

The wife is looking at the upcoming Pontiac Solstice / Saturn Sky two seat roadsters coming out in 2006/7(?). May get one of those depending on how she likes it, and if the pricing remains as promised.

And neither does anyone else, nor will they ever again.

However the void of the f-bodies has pushed alot of those buyers into the vettes.

The Saturn Sky is a gorgeous vehicle. Hopefully GM makes these into Miata fighters and not just Sunday cruisers.

These talks of German cars......you guys ever try to work on them? They suck! I spend a few days a week stopping by my buddies shop or working there. He curses BMW, Audi, & VW all the time. Simple things like fuel filters can take hours to find, let alone replace. Special tools are required for this and that.

My 01 Z28 has a lot of upgrades, has had a hard track life, but hasn't had a trip to the dealer or problem in 4 years/31k miles.

What was GM thinking?

Aztek
SSR
Rainier
etc., etc., etc.

They need to stop trying to make the car they think will create a niche or a boom, and just try and build normal cars that people want.

The only vehicles I would consider from GM now are the C6, GTO, Full size trucks/SUV's. But I'm not sure I'll ever buy a new car again, it seems like a waste of money.

Just thought I'd add my lil .02. GM is hurting like the other 2 big ones.

GM folded one of its own brands.
GM banked on changing Saturns little cars to midsize, that flopped and Saturn is in trouble. They have pumped some money into Saturn (remember the record setting LSR car) to try to turn it around.

The market today is based on trucks and GM holds a good share of it right now. But with everyone else entering the market there will be less for the rest of the market.

I've done business with some door panel manufacturers for GM and they have such a small margin on profit. Every year the profit is cut more by GM. If they can't produce there are 5-10 others viaing for the same panel sale at GM.

Chances are you will never see anything but the Vette and trucks last in the market. There will probably always be a marketing shine on flip-flopping car styles like the Cav.

I owned a Rabbit deisel and a Rabbit Cabriolet

The German word "farhvergnugen" translates to "piece of shit" in the Queen's english

looks like Toyota is taking a lot of market share...
Makes you wounder what they are doing that GM is missing.
quality and finish ?

I don't know about Audi's or VW's but my 328 is much easier to work on than my Trans Am (for the most part). The only "special tools" I needed to change the fuel filter were a 10mm socket and a flathead screwdriver. As far as finding it thats simple. Find the gas tank, find the fuel line coming out of the tank, follow it until you find the filter...

The only vehicle GM makes that I would consider buying new right now is the new C6 Z06, and I'm afraid they are going to price it right out of it's market. I'd also consider the new Pontiac/Saturn roadsters that are coming out, but again, I'm very worried that GM will overprice them when they come out. In all honesty though, I think I'm done with buying new cars. Why spend all that money on a new car, when there are so many great deals on awesome used cars.

As far as GM products is concerned the Cobalt might be good (although I think it is just a reworked Opel Astra?). At least C&D gave it decent reviews thus far. That said, the only new GM's that I would consider now is the Vette (obviously but for the price the Porsche Boxster will be looked at as well) or the GTO. Unfortunately I can not even afford to buy the GTO right now. The Solstice and Sky looks promising, but indications are they will be heavy.

As far as VW's quality: I owned a '86 Jetta with a 1.6l in South Africa. In 3 years I did about 155,000 miles in it. I only replaced general wear items but even at a service interval of 15,000km (about 10,000 miles) it was sometimes serviced every month. Currently my wife drives a 99.5 Jetta VR6 auto. I do not like the driver seat, or the way the gearbox shifts. We had the window problem (like Kevin), I had to replace the MAF (I used one from a 2.0 which is the same sensor in a different housing and saved $150), an oxygen sensor ($250 from the dealer, I found one new in the VW bag for $50), the cupholders broke as has the one glovebox support! Still my wife loves it and it is still going well at just below 90,000 miles.

On the other hand my RS has 180,000+ on the odo. I have only replaced a few maintenance items (waterpump, front rotors, AC condensor) and it actually has better gas mileage than the Jetta (which runs on premium).

I bitch about my VW's, but I'm dumb enough that I'd consider buying another one. I almost bought an R32 last year, but I'd have had to trade in my Camaro for it (probably the only reason there is not a 157 mph, AWD hatchback in my driveway right now....well, that and the fact that I'm at work right now.... ).

GM only makes a hand full of vehicles that most people want.

Trucks and the Vette. Outside of that, they have nothing I would be interested in. I would drive a CTSV, but the design is less than appealing to look at.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Caddy is turning out ugly cars. I'm not sure I'd even drive one (if it was free, but I'd not buy one).

trackbird, don't buy an Mcoupe w/ out doing some research first, or you can just ask me. My wife traded her WRX for a Z3 3.0 Coupe and I have found alot of info on these little cars. For example, the earlier/lower hp MZ3's have a huge after market and great reliability. The later/higher hp ones have a small after market and some unconfirmed reliability claims. Also all Z3's have a rear subframe weakness that needs to be addressed if the car is going to see any track time or big Hp #'s.

SRT4. Granted, not exactly the same market, but it's definitely a performance car when you look at the numbers.

BTW, for more reading about the history behind GM's woes, try this: http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0.../A01-120183.htm . There are other links that cover their troubles, also in this article.

Eugenio, Toyota does a lot more right than just having good quality and finish. Their whole product development cycle is completely different, and much more structured than the Big 3. Toyota's whole philosophy is very conservative. They simply do not take risks. Their motto must be "slow and steady wins the race". Fact is, it's working. When I was working for Federal-Mogul a few years ago I flew to Japan a few times working on a Nissan engine program. Every time I'd also go to Toyota and meet with their engineering supervisors. Each time we talked the conversations became a little longer and they started letting me in on a little more information and giving us slightly larger "investigations" so we could prove ourselves to them. Cost was certainly an issue, but they were much more concerned that their suppliers had the right attitude and had the technical "know-how" to meet their standards. Go into GM looking for new business and the general perception is the lowest cost provider wins, regardless of technical ability. If you get the business on the basis of low cost and can't step up to the plate quality or delivery wise, then it's time to sic purchasing and the quality guys on you and beat you into submission. The differences between GM and Toyota are just so huge it's amazing.

I know where you're coming from Kevin. I just wanted to make it absolutely clear that there are many cars out there now being sold for a loss. You'd almost think they believe in the saying, "we may lose a little on each car, but we'll make it up with volume." The reality is however that many times the financial guys seem to justify that it's better to just keep on cranking out the cars and losing a little money on each car than it is to idle plants and still pay the workers (due to union contracts, etc.), get hit with cancellation charges from suppliers, etc. However, Toyota's approach would be to just better predict an accurate sales volume in the first place and plan for less volume. Of course, Toyota doesn't have such a huge workforce in the US that they have to keep busy. The UAW has done an amazing job tying the Big 3's hands behind their back to make sure they can't dynamically change their company quickly in the face of changes in the marketplace.

I guess this subject is a little sore with me because it's my career that's being messed with.

Next thing you know someone will bring up the question of why so many jobs are being outsourced outside the US. I've been learning Spanish using CDs in my car lately because I've given up after so many trips to Mexico. Things aren't changing. I bet in a couple of years I'll have Chinese CDs in my car.

My dad was the parts manager at a local Chevrolet dealer for 20+ years. I can remember "Show Day" when the cars for the new model year were unveiled. The owner of the dealership owned a farm and had all the new cars delivered there rather than the dealership. A day or so before show day, they would soap the windows in the show room, and bring the cars up at night. It was a very big deal. Probably sounds "quaint" to most people today. I think all manufacturers did the same, but the pratice seemed to die out in the 70's. These days, one year simply morphs into the next, and I know costs prevent them from major changes every year, but as a kid, it was almost magic. It's probably how I became hooked on cars, and I wish GM would bring some of that feeling back.

...no....you'll be LIVING in China.....

Far as I'm concerned that is their own stupid fault. I am a teacher in the Province of Ontario. Up until about 15 years ago the province ran our pension plan and was consistently coming up short. One of the big brusing strikes we engaged won us the right to manage our own pension. It is now the envy of country and is probably recognized around the world as one of the most successful and powerful pension funds going. Why the heck can't GM and it's employees do something similar?

I think this is probably the biggest issue with the big 3. It's truly amazing to me that the US auto makers have to look at moving production to places like Mexico to be competitive when foreign auto makers are moving production to the US. The difference? The foreign auto makers don't have to put up with the outrageous UAW contracts that the big 3 do. I'm not against people getting paid a fair wage, but I think most of us would agree there are some outrageous $$/benefits being provided to UAW workers. If the UAW doesn't wake up and get realistic about what's happening, the big 3 are going to dissapear along with all those UAW jobs. I thought it was rather hilarious a few several years back when I saw a news story that said the UAW had basically given up on getting into the Japanese manufacturer's American plants and was now going to focus on the European's American plants. I never really saw a follow up, but my guess is they didn't have much luck there either. My guess is that while the workers in those plants realize they'll never get the outrageous $$/benefits that UAW workers for the big 3 will, they also realize that if they let the UAW in the Japanese/Europeans would just close the plants and move somewhere else.

...EXACTLY...gonna kill the golden goose...

Yeah, that was my 2002 that also had the waterpump gaskets fail. I've also had the brakes warp 5 times in the warranty period. I know I was a bad boy, but switched to slotted/cross drilled and no problems since. Had a RR axle bearing turn bad on me. Right now, the driver's door ajar sensor isn't working right and I've also had a couple speakers blow on me.

Kevin... as far as the 6 grand profit and assuming that an automaker won't sell at a lost, my question to you is this. What about the situation of overstocks? The automaker is in a position of having too many units already available for sale that aren't moving, and also a production line that costs the company PLENTY of money for every hour it's shut down. What provides the lesser of two evils? Which position is losing less money? As far as the 6 g profit... I don't think only the automakers are seeing that. I'm pretty sure that the dealers are seing quite a bit of it as well. Just a couple of more thoughts to toss out... I'm just not sure to agree or disagree with all of this. One way or another, I don't exactly like it.

Man, are the Malibu SS and Malibu Maxx SS hot looking or what?

The Maxx is the latest in the goofy designs GM has launched.

Hmmm, which 5 door would I choose, the Maxx or....



And it's even made in the USA and comes with a 5spd MT, or 6spd AT

The Malibu's are very reminiscent of certain cheap Korean vehicles...but which is uglier?

I'd take the cheap Korean car at this point. At least it has a better warranty.