I recently joined a 4th gen group on Facebook. There is a lot of trash on there, but I'm surprised at how many people are on there who track or auto-x their 4th gen. There's even someone who makes and sells front splitters for LT1 cars.

Should I be spreading the word? My feeling is if they end up being tools, they can always be booted. The more people talking about 4th gens (in a good way) the better.

Thoughts?

I hate the Facebook interface as an information service, especially when discussing complex ideas and data. Forums are MUCH better in that regard. Facebook might be OK for B/S/T, bothering people you went to high school with or airing dirty laundry but for technical stuff it's terrible. If we can get the technically-minded people over here it would be awesome.

I can't decide. lol. I'm mostly ok with how things are, but I also appreciate people who want to learn or help. I haven't been pushing to grow the board and I'm not really sure what to do with this place anymore. I mean, I'm not looking to change anything, but I've owned this board from the time the 4th gen was new and dominant in various track classes and autocross classes to now...where we are starting to become "vintage" cars. It's been an interesting trip. I've tried to add some Corvette content (when I had one) and I thought maybe at some point the firearms section might grow enough to spin off into another board...but we just don't have the traffic. And that's ok. This place pays its own way, but I'm certainly not making money off of it like some of the large boards (or making any real money off of it). I don't mind running it on such a budget (and I'd likely run it out of pocket to keep it going if that's what it came down to) and I've met some of the best people that I know right here through this board. So, none of this is meant to sound like a complaint....it absolutely isn't.

With that said, if you see decent people...refer them. Have them email me at trackbird (at) gmail dot com and send me a screen name and I'll build them in. I haven't had to do a lot of moderating around here in years. We used to have some pretty heated technical discussions and I even made phone calls to sort things out on occasion...but those days are long gone (and I'm ok with it). lol.

I'm not opposed to new members by any means, but I hope they would be worthwhile additions. Everyone here does a great job of listening and learning. I would hate to degrade the quality of this site. There's a lot of garbage in those Facebook groups, I've seen it firsthand. I agree that there are some good members in one Facebook groups, they end up being easy to spot amongst all the junk floating around.

I think it would be a good idea to reach out to those quality people via private message and invite them to the site. I wouldn't want to open the floodgates, but nobody would ever say no to adding some more real enthusiasts.

I agree with 79TA. I'm on the newer side of this site and I view this as THE place to come and get real world, no BS useful info on the Fbody cars. You have people like Alan who build some real nice race cars to people like Trackbird that know a lot and seem to build out of his garage.

You get a good mix of talent levels and people the genuinely like to mess with these cars. LS1tech is a good time waster and to get some generic info quicker due to higher traffic. But the good thing about this site is you don't get the "what exhaust is best".

People on major forums are lazy. They ask the dumbest questions that could have been answered had they researched on their own. BUT there are also some knowledgeable people as well. Take the good with the bad.

Requiring people to email Trackbird keeps up the quality of members. Somewhat weeds out the 16 year old that has his first car asking what muffler will give the most hp...

I actually don't mind the 16 yr old asking about the best muffler, it gives an opportunity to give them a real education about what they need to be paying attention to. If they want to remain stupid and not take real direction, then they need to go.

I don't mind either. I enjoy helping people who know absolutely nothing, as long as they listen.

I was that guy one time. Still am, really.

We were hacked once upon a time. It was by someone who created an account, clicked on the validation email and was "in", then they used some known exploits of the day to hack the board. Very few hackers have "pride" in taking down a website that they had to ask permission to access. They don't ever tell their friends "Once I asked that guy to let me on the forum, I screwed that board up good". So, the email approach keeps that from happening. We were also getting about 10,000 registrations a month from spammers. I'd have 20+ pages of accounts to validate. I gave up and said "if you're smart enough to find the post about how to get in....or you know someone....we'd love to have you". It wasn't meant to be a test, it was just a solution to some headaches that I never wanted to deal with ever again.



I have two good friends who were 16 year old kids (one might have been 18) with F-bodies that I helped setup the suspension on their cars (met them through LS1 tech) and taught them how things work and why and not just "buy these parts". Both of them are from other parts of the country (Michigan and Oklahoma). Both are now in their mid 30's and both have stayed at my place and come to visit when they are in Ohio. They are two of the best guys you could know and both are super smart. And it started with questions like the muffler question above.

I am one of the original members of this site (member 14 I think - it will show up when I post). I think I signed up the first or second day.

Back when formed, FRRAX was created because sites like Corner Carvers, LS1, etc. were full of Internet tough guys and techless arguments with tools. For my autocross, time trial and f-body road race years (I race an old Busch North car now) this place was a godsend for me and I learned a lot. Without a lot of silliness. I still visit this site every day but I just don't contribute as much as I used to. Still like it though.

I'd say be selective with who you invite or it could get trashy here.

I'd allow a few more members (in fact the guy I recommended recently is an SCCA National Champ in different cars). So sure as long as it's not a giant influx all at once, we could have some more here. LS1 tech seems to be pretty busy so I think the involvement/interest is still out there.

CAM Facebook groups are perfect examples of what I don't want

If you guys can find them, I'm glad to let them in.

This wasn't meant to be an exclusive club. I've just been doing what I can to protect the site from hackers and "dumb". I'm open to suggestions and new ideas. Heck, the banner at the top was a user submission that looked better than what we had before, so I happily put it up on the board. You guys can always PM or email me ideas or input, I don't mind a bit. I've seen boards "ruled" by guys who take no questions and get very defensive about that stuff....I'm not that guy. I'm just here to keep the lights on and share what I can remember about these cars (getting old sucks...lol).

Part of it may be the fact that the Fbody is getting older. IMO, the C5's are becoming the new cheap "it" car. As the Fbody cars get older and cheaper (a couple thousand dollars) you may be finding the younger crowd picking them up as their first "sports car" or coming across people that know them and get into racing.

I'm not sure how to get more traffic in here. Like it was mentioned before, this site seems more "word of mouth" as a great resource. IMO it has a image of highly knowledgeable people that don't give into the gimmick of bolting on parts just to say they have said part. People will show they researched something before asking and then listen to what people say.

I believe this a more mature site, simply put. The content of conversations are more fruitful (although maybe less frequent) than most other sites I'm on. Quality over quantity.

The third gen had this problem for a while. They were so cheap that high school kids were buying (and mostly destroying) them. Either "bad mods" or just crashing them outright. The 4th gen is still a remarkably fast car, though newer stuff is even faster and I expect the destruction to accelerate as prices drop.

C5's are cheap, but not cheap to maintain. Clutch jobs cost a fortune or take 2-3 weekends at home on jack stands. I've been wanting one, but the clutch jobs have kept me away so far (as well as HVAC issues and ABS issues...all of which are expensive). I've considered the C6 (more capable car, same clutch job issues) and I think they all have push button start (I HATE push button start, we just had to buy a car with that and I really hate it now). I told my wife I need to keep the current Camaro and truck because they use real keys and I fear I can't buy anything newer now. lol.

I wanted to click 'like' for this comment...

A 3rd Gen with bad tires on the back made a decent drift car, when that was popular for the kids to do. Unfortunately, amateur drifting careers are usually short-lived, as are their rides. Decent 3rd Gens are starting to slowly appreciate in price, and while they'll never get to the range of a 1st, or 2nd Gen, they shouldn't be far behind. Unfortunately, electronics will limit their acceptance.

Yeah, that's why we went with the ex-cop vehicles for our DD's. They're built like trucks, and come with few electronic doodads that keep the vehicle from running when they fail. They're also less likely to have a push button.

But don't be a hater, my Dad's '59 Rebel Wagon had a push-button start (and push-button shifter, for that matter).

I'm just here for the coffee and cookies.

My wife just bought a new Ford Edge. It has push button start. The other day I went to leave in it to follow her to the dealer to drop it off (they had to finish some stuff from the deal). I got in, sat down, set off the panic alarm (because the damn keys are in my pocket...with all the other crap and other keys that I prefer to put in the ignition), I started the car and the back hatch was showing as ajar. I got out to fix that. Restarted the car, etc. I hate driving with my keys in my pocket. I also hate that you can't lock your keys in a push button start car. I can unlock my truck with my phone. That gives me the option of hiding my keys in the truck and locking it, or placing them in a console vault and carrying my phone and the vault key to get the keys out. In a push button car, if the keys are in it, it can unlock, it can also start. So, you can lock the keys in a console vault and it does absolutely nothing for security. This push button bullshit is the dumbest idea we've ever had for cars. It's really stupid. And when I get out, I never know if it actually locked. The keys are in my pocket (and not in my hand), so I have to dig them out to lock the damn car once I get home. Did I mention that I hate this crap?




You got cookies? Shit.

Trackbird, I agree. My wife just bought a 2008 Lexus IS250...first push button car we have owned. It was cool for about a month. Now she always leaves her keys in her purse and doesn't hang them up in the kitchen where we hang all the car keys. So I ALWAYS go to where the keys SHOULD be, and of course then I need to riffle through her purse for the keys. I found out I have this really weird thing about driving us somewhere but not physically having the keys on me. I know I drive to dinner, but I will occasionally do the pocket check only to find I don't have keys on me. I then have a mini heart attack and then realize they are in her purse...F all that nonsense. It's a neat car for 2008 with all the doodads it has...adaptive driving headlights at night (headlights turn as you go around a corner as well as auto leveling feature). Keyless entry recognizes key next to a door so you can put your hand behind the handle (without touching it) and it will unlock.

I fear the day this shit starts to break down and not work...it will need new tires soon at which point I will NOT update/reprogram the tire pressure sensors...one of those "must go to the dealer" things I think. I don't have enough lube for the Lexus dealer.

And in terms of the C5/C6...I agree again. I'd love one but mods/maintenance is prob double than a Fbody. I don't feel guilty tearing into a Fbody and tinkering. I sometimes think (with how I like to tinker/engineer/mod) a C5/C6 would be too "nice". Give me another 10 years when I don't feel like doing as much...a C6 would fit nicely.

Ironically, clean, stock, unmolested C5's are way easier to find that clean, stock, unmolested f-bodies. Tear into a Corvette, there are plenty owned by guys with gold chains who keep them under 20 coats on Zaino.

I bought the tool to reprogram the TPS system. It was $60. When they took my wheels and tires, I needed them reprogrammed. The tire shop would do it, but it was going to take them an hour. So, I bought the tool.

It's true! Or older guys that upgrade. My old roommate's dad before he passed traded in clean 40th and 50th Anniversary Vettes on a C7. I bet that was the deal of the day at the dealership.

It's funny how these smart keys are such a PITA. I have the problem with my wife leaving her keys in her purse, so she goes days without physically seeing them, which means she often looses them. I can never find them. When I need to move her car, our conversation almost always:

Me: "where are you keys!"
Her: "in my purse"
Me:"Where the hell is your purse!"
Her: "Where it normally is"
Me: "Which pocket? I can't find them!"
Her: "Oh they must be in my other purse"
Me: "Goddamnit!!!!!!

I'm waiting for the day we get somewhere in her car, shut the car off and realize we don't have her keys. It's going to happen.

I'm glad it's not just me. Technology for the sake of technology. I also noticed that I can sit in the car and leave my foot off the brake and punch the start button (turns on accessory power, including the blower fan???). It also allows me to step on the brake and pull the shifter out of park. When I take my foot off the brake, the car will roll. Why would I ever (besides maintenance/installing a car stereo, etc) need the car out of park in accessory mode? That seems really stupid to me.

I worry about getting somewhere without keys too. Luckily, I always have my set. The other day she started it and I was by the door. As she started to pull out it flashed "key not present". I think it started on my key and then lost it when I moved, it had a brief panic attack and then locked onto her key? These systems really do irritate me. I'm not sure why anybody thought this was cool or handy or trendy. It's just a headache.

Stop looking a gift horse in the goddamn mouth. Absolutely hate dealing with cars that won't stay in neutral without the engine running.

When I was installing car stereos, I'd just put the keys in and turn them, pull it into neutral (or low) to get the shifter out of the way and I could pull the battery cable and do the stereo installation. lol

I'd like to see more new members with 3rd gen builds. They seem to be forgotten.

I'm wanting to do another one. I should have kept the teal car, skipped the Corvette and bought the current 2002. It would have been a much better plan.

That would be nice, considering there are quite a few high end pro-touring builds being done on 3rd gens. They are the next hot car. Check out Detroit Speeds 3rd gen build, it is unbelievable.

Hindsight, eh?

I have a friend with an LS/T56 swapped 3rd gen that I just got into autoxing recently, and now have him interested in HPDE. I've mentioned this forum in passing for alternatives to LStech and the CAM pages, because he's wanting to learn all he can. I'll have him send an email

I have an 87 Trans/Am that I am gathering parts for. Going to leave stock motor and tranny for next year, but upgrade the suspension before next spring.

Yup....



Absolutely. Have him drop me a line and I'll build him an account.

(first post!)

I haven't added a thing to the forum yet but I've certainly learned a lot from reading old threads and following discussions. It's hard to sort out whose opinion is educated and who is just regurgitating manufacturer's advertising material on the big forums. I get the impression that everyone here has actually raced their car and isn't just talking the talk.

Exactly. That is why I come here looking for any information with substance and real world proof/experience. No drama, just passionate backyard down to earth racers.

We collectively broke a lot of stuff in the early days....actually and figuratively. The older threads are stuffed with good information about what works and what broke. I forget just how much info is archived here, but there's a considerable amount. And I'm always up for sharing it with new members. I actually just built a new account 2 minutes ago. I certainly would like to see this place keep growing, but we've become an oddity on the internet (and none of us did the 5th/6th gen cars), so we are an archive of what's becoming vintage car info. lol. It's still a lot of fun.

I for one have a lot to learn, and am glad for the info. My Google-fu just isn't that good and so I find searching dificult. Wish there was more stickies for thirdgen info.

Just start a thread with your questions and we will answer what we can and link old threads you might not have found.