I had the coil-overs put in Friday. I put new pads and rotors in over the weekend. Scheduled an alignment and brake flush for today.

Just got a call that the car is too low to get on the alignment rack or even on the hoist to do the brake bleed. I asked how much clearance they were short, explained the coil overs, but the service advisor told me the owner said to park the car and not touch it.

So I start calling around in my smaller city and am having no luck finding someone who can get a car with a lowered stance. GM dealer says he has a hard time with stock vehicles with running boards, so he can't help. Big tire chain says they can't do the brale bleed, and they want $89.99 for a custom alignment.

Bleed 'em yourself. It is not hard (unless there is air in it).

I took mine to NTB (National Tire and Battery) for the alignment. They were the only ones in town that would do it. Do you have an NTB in your area?

I've always used NTB for my custom alignments until now. I took my car to NTB a few weeks ago for an alignment and we couldn't get it on the rack. Too low with the coilerovers. I talked to the tech for a while and he said that typical alignment racks are all about the same height. I scheduled an alignment at a race shop for next week...

I am a relative newbie to working on my car, but I found bleeding the brakes to be pretty easy unless the bleeders are stuck. You may want to give this a try yourself.

The procrastination part is that I leave for Road America in 24 hours, so this isn't exactly the best time to teach myself to bleed brakes. No NTB here, our only big name place is Tires Plus.

Hmm....find one along the way? Maybe you can locate one on the internet and schedule to be there early.

I can talk you through bleeding your brakes on the phone. It is really easy. I can PM you my cell number and you can call me at 5:30 Eastern time (as I get off work) and I'll talk you through it. Head for the garage, remove the right rear wheel, get a helper, a foot or so of vacuum line (or clear line from the autoparts store) and an empty plastic bottle (bottled water bottles work well) and brake fluid. If that works for you, let me know, I'll send a number.

Kevin

You're going to be at Road America? Cool!
I'll see you there!

Alignment for now is easy too.

I know what it's like to be in crunch time!!

Get yourself sockets, and wrenches that fit the front LCA bolts. You will also need a prybar, a good tape measure, and a helper for setting the toe.

I would search for an alignment ASAP but there is NO reason why this should not serve you well, and is the way I align my car, exclusively.

Loosen the camber and caster nuts on one side, and then pry the camber (horizontal) side of the control arm all the way out. Tighten that nut but not really tight. Just nice and snug. Do the same on the caster bushing. Then if the camber didn't move tighten them both completely.

For setting toe, I just use the grooves in the Hoosiers. Generally not very accurate but have found that it matches alignment racks.

Or lift a wheel and with a white wax crayon, mark each tire in front and back (like spinning the tire while holding the crayon fixed). Do the other side the same. And then have the helper hold the tape right on the mark and take a measurement at the front and then the back. If the front is greater than the rear of the tire, you have toe out, if it is less, you have toe in. The difference in measurements is how much in/out. I would set it very close to zero and any tolerance would go to the toe out side.


You can do both. I promise you that.

I'm the only Firehawk signed up. Guess I'm the only owner in the region gutsy/dumb enough to show up for the event.

I had a blast last year, and this year I invited my Dad to come along as a way to say thanks since I got a pretty decent car gene from him. The only thing that scares me is he was a drag racer and then a cop, so I'm fully expecting to come away from Elkhart Lake towing my mangled car behind a U-Haul.

And I found a place in the neighboring town over the lunch hour. I just got a call, they could only get my driver's camber to -0.9 hmmm...

Is your car lowered? If so, where did they set the castor?

Got the spec sheet.

I requested:

camber -1.2
Caster +4.5
Toe .1 out

I got:
Camber -.8/-1.2
Caster +4.6/+4.6
Toe .12/.2

They also weren't able to flush all the fluid out of the brake system (miscommunication). They just bled the brakes and wondered why I left them two new cans of ATE Blue next to the case of Mobil 1 and oil filter. So I still have two cans of ATE that I would like to put in the car.

Just go to the track and bleed them that morning. It only takes a few minutes and I'm sure some other people there will be glad to help you out. All the OT days I've been to people have been glad to help out with things like this.

Anyway, all you need is a wrench that fits the bleed screw, a vacuum hose that will go over the nipple, a jug to catch the used brake fluid in (gallon milk jug?), jack, and lug wrench. Bring along your 2 cans of ATE Blue and ask for help when you get there if you don't have time to fool with it at home.

Being a total newbie to brakes, let me see if I have this right.

Start with the furthest caliper, bleed it until the ATE Blue comes through. Then repeat with the next furthest caliper and so on. All the while, make sure that the master cylinder doesn't run dry, correct?

Everyone in town worried about the ABS and reverse vacuuming the fluid when I called.

It really is that simple. The only thing I'd add is if you don't have Speedbleeders or a Motive pressure bleeding system or the like is it's a 2 person job. One person pumps the brakes and the other person turns the bleed screw. Make sure you loosen the screw only after the person inside the car is pushing on the pedal, and that you tighten the screw before they let up.

Thats all you need to do!!!!!!!! Very simple with 2 people.
Hey Let me know how the new track config is.(Turn 11 Area) I'll be there in 3 wks and will only have 1 recon lap to get it right. John

When I do mine. I fill the master cylinder, do "11 pumps" of the brake pedal on the rears (that leaves enough to avoid getting air) and I do 5 or 6 pumps on the front and refill. Do the RR, LR, RF and LF. I use ATE super blue and it takes about 3/4 liter to change it all (I have TCS and it has dual lines to the rear).

Have fun!

As long as you don't let it run dry, it will be no problem at all.

I'm headed to Nashville tomorrow for the Mustang weekend (crew cheif for a friends 2 cars). See ya!

Get one of these. They are a real time-saver, you can do it yourself, and you all but eliminate the possibility of getting air in the system.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html

I scrambled around this morning to find someone who could squeeze me in for the brake fluid flush before I leave at noon. I finally resorted to calling, gasp, the Chevy dealer.

Me: Hi, I'm in a pinch and hoping you could do a brake fluid flush on my car today.
Service Lady: You mean bleed the brakes.
Me: Sure, but in saying that before, eveyone thinks I just need the air bled out.
SL: Well why do you want this done?
Me: I want fresh fluid with a higher boiling temperature
SL: Why do you want that?
Me: So I can race this weekend.
SL: Can you get it here by 9:30?
Me: I'll drop it off right now.

Arrive at dealership:
Me: I just spoke with you on the phone
SL: The brake bleed?
Me: Yes, but I left the brake fluid in the garage, I'll drop it off in a few minutes.
SL: So you don't have new fluid in the brakes?
Me: No, that's why I'm here
SL: Well why do you want to do this?
Me: I'm taking the car on a road course and want a higher boiling temp in my brake fluid.


Now I see why everyone here is such an advocate of DIY.

ESP, nice description of doing a home performance wheel alignment! I'm going to try that. I believe I understand the theory behind setting the camber and toe-in for handling, but how does caster play into it? (hope it's OK to piggy back onto this thread)

I think you will find its much easier to do on your own than trust someone else with it anyway. I can't remember how many times I've bled the brakes in the Hawk....

Bleeding the ABS unit is easy as well. I've been told to start with the ABS Unit, but the last 2 time I've bled the brakes I skipped it with no problems at all.

Matt

[quote=Cal,Apr 21 2004, 05:14 PM]

[/QUOTE]
ESP, nice description of doing a home performance wheel alignment! I'm going to try that. I believe I understand the theory behind setting the camber and toe-in for handling, but how does caster play into it? (hope it's OK to piggy back onto this thread) [/quote]
Sorry Cal I missed this post.

Caster has a self centering effect. And I guess it can make your car follow ruts and what not.
As far as I can tell, that is very tire dependant. On cheasy street tires I don't follow ruts much. On race tires (just to the gas station or something) it follows ruts BAD, and you have to hang on tight.

Caster as a performance alignment setting....As you increase Positive caster you will also Increase Negative camber, as the wheel is turned. I would prefer more positive caster. In tight autox turns, you want the most negative camber in the tight turns-the turns when the wheel is turned the most.

As it is (because it's all I can get) I have -1.9 on one side -1.7 on the other, caster was around 4.4, and I use 3/16 toe OUT.

If more were available I would run -2.1 camber, and 5.5 caster. Probably keep the toe the same.

OK thanks ESP, how Caster works as a performance setting was what I was wondering. I knew it caused the self centering, but hadn't realized it caused the camber to change as you move the steering wheel. Now I can see now how it would. Seems like in a turn caster would cause the outside tire to go to more neg camber, while the inside tire would go to more positive camber, exactly what you would want for turning. From this I would conclude that caster might be even more important than camber in autox.

Yes it is important.
But for us, since we have a limited amount of negative camber available, camber is more important.

For instance I'm pretty sure around -1.9 is about the right amount of negative camber for MY roll resistance and caster. On a stock vehicle or with softer springs, the caster isn't going to get you close to that, so maxing camber out first is most important.