And that's when the fight started... Options

[JimMueller]

Ahh, I miss the good ol' days of these conversations on FRRAX...starting at post 38

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brake...ng-springs.html

This post has been edited by JimMueller: Feb 15 2018, 12:33 AM

[slowTA]

I saw he Facebooked a link to that post along with a poll asking if price is the only thing people look for, or does support matter too.

[GCrites80s]

Sam can talk to his credit card processor to get that rate down to about 1.75%. Most of them will do it if he says he's been shopping around. It's a tricky industry for sure... you all should see one of the statements. I do all my own accounting and have an MS in Finance and the statements still make my head spin with their complexity.

edit: Actually, since Sam's transactions are almost all phone/internet "card not present" entries his fees can't get much lower.

This post has been edited by GCrites80s: Feb 15 2018, 05:32 PM

[dojob]

Why hasn't Sam posted on here since 2011? But is still actively logging in?

[trackbird]

Ahh, I miss the good ol' days of these conversations on FRRAX...starting at post 38

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brake...ng-springs.html

I don't miss those days. That was earlier in the history of this board. I actually used to wind up on the phone with the various participants in some of the "spats" to convince everybody to play nice. I don't miss those days at all, though we had good tech and guys who were rabid about it.

Scanning through that trainwreck (and without bringing the fight to this board...I'm not in the mood)....I don't understand why people expect Sam to give them the Forgestar fitment information that he has worked up. I believe he is running offsets that he has worked out to fit the cars as easily as possible. Knowledge is power. If Forgestar wants to spec wheels for them, that's ok. If Sam uses something different and it fits better, that info is his to use to sell wheels. If someone else wants to buy one of the gauges that bolts to the car and a tire and start working out their own fitments, that's ok too.


There's a story about a guy who calls an engineering firm for help with a piece of equipment (it goes roughly like this). The engineer shows up and looks at the system. When he's done, he puts a large X on one piece of the equipment and says "That's your problem right there, replace that" and hands them a bill for $50,000.

The equipment owner is really angry about how he could charge $50,000 to place a chalk X.

The engineer explains "$1.00 is for the chalk X, $49,999 is for knowing where to put it".


Sam is in a tough business that's dominated by a couple very large mail order firms (I used to work in the tech department at Jegs, trust me, I know all about it) and a lot of small ones. It's extremely difficult to compete with Amazon, Jegs, etc. His competitive advantage is his knowledge. He may not beat Jegs or Summit on price, but he can answer questions that they probably can't. Sometimes I just mail order stuff. Sometimes I call Sam. If I know what I need, I often order it (but I often check Sam's prices to see if he's close, if so I'll try to buy it there...what's $5 in the grand scheme of what I have in this project?). If I have questions, I often call Sam and if I do...I buy it from him. I don't even price shop in most cases.

The RAM hydraulics, Fidanza flywheel and Centerforce clutch in my project came from Sam. I called Sam and said "I've never had hydraulic issues with any of my F-bodies (even though they are notorious for having such issues, it's never happened to me before), what do you recommend for hydraulics and what's the recent status of the Fidanza/Centerforce combo?". Sam gave me a brief rundown on what he's tried/sold/learned from customer feedback lately and I gave him my visa card number. Parts showed up in a couple days.

Shocks for my truck, I called Sam and asked for pricing. He left a message for me with the price. I called the shop and said "Send me Bilstiens, here's my visa". Poof, new shocks showed up.

Guys want help, but they are so cheap that they take that info and order elsewhere to save $7.00 on freight. I used to spend 20 minutes here and there helping guys with the tech behind things they wanted to order. I had a guy wanting to build a desert pre-runner with a big block. I'd spend 20-30 minutes on the phone with him (until the boss would see my call time and yell at me). Ultimately I spent 2 to 3 hours on the phone running down all the information he needed for his big block and explaining the tech. The boss asked "is he going to order?". I said "Yes, he's going to order". After about the 3rd hour on the phone, he ordered all the parts for a big block, pistons, rods, cam, lifters, aluminum heads, etc. I handed my boss a copy of the order and said "He ordered, just like I said he would" (and it was multiple thousands of dollars). As one of 100 guys on the phones, I had the luxury of time...at least to a degree (and I got paid if I sold stuff or not that day). Sam doesn't. And if my guy had called me up and said "I just ordered all the parts we discussed from Summit", my boss would have been a little irritated with me for spending the time. Imagine how Sam would feel after 3 hours on the phone (that would be 3 hours that didn't make him money selling other parts, packing orders, doing paperwork, etc).

Sam is direct. Sam can be a little gruff (for lack of a better term) at times. Sam and I have bumped heads on things on occasion. I also consider Sam a friend and I do what I can to help his business and buy from him when I can. None of this is personal. If I post something and he says I'm wrong/that won't work. I might try it anyway and I'll admit if it fails (like shortening my rear Koni DA's for my original 2002 Camaro....that thread is on this board somewhere). If you've ever met Sam in person, you'll know that what most people take as Sam arguing and telling them what to do...is just Sam. He's not fighting with you, he's just "Sam". I don't say that to insult Sam. I say that to explain that he sounds the same way when you're not talking tech, but you would have to talk to him at an event or something to understand that (if that makes sense?).

Why hasn't Sam posted on here since 2011? But is still actively logging in?

There are a lot of people who log in and keep up on things without posting. Sam also sold me some of the parts for the convertible project, he could be following that (but I'm certainly not of the opinion that I'm so important that he's watching my builds either...I just mean it could be "anything"). He could be following anything, keeping up on feedback on the Strano/UMI coil overs or any of 100 other things. This site sees a lot more web traffic than it does posts. It seems we've become a bit of an archive for 4th gen (and to a lesser extent, 3rd gen) information.

[dojob]

Since I was the one on ls1tech that sent Sam off on his tangent, because I posted a summit link I pulled off google as an example for "UMI fbody lowering spring" for the OP of that thread.... let me comment about that "lowering spring" thread and Sam's FB poll about the thread.

Sam always feels entitled to go into threads on ls1tech and try to divert the thread into buying products he can supply. If he can't supply the parts the thread is about, the parts and people looking to use the part are inferior. He consistently derails threads like that. He makes the conversation to serve his agenda. He'll start trying to sell his parts, which the OP wasn't even discussing or wanting information on. Then he'll feel as if people must buy from him because he gave his $.02 in a thread. Same as his FB poll about the thread. He takes things out of context and omits information to serve himself. He manipulates consumers and gives half truths about information to unsuspecting people. Then tangents off about his "income struggles", "his lonely possessions", and "championship jackets". That's why I further commented in that "lowering spring" thread.

No one wants Sam to give out information about wheel offsets. The point around that is that he, again, is manipulating consumers. Wheel offset information is readily available for the fbody platform for any and all wheels/tires/. Because he states the nonsense that he "only" knows that information. So by him saying the information is "proprietary" is the issue people are having with that topic (among various others).

He creates his own hardships and drama surrounding himself and his shop. It's a shame. He does have racing accomplishments on paper. But the way he talks to people and carries himself professionally is off putting and disappointing for the auto aftermarket industry. I'm all for giving business where it's earned. But he's not earning it with his demeanor. He expects the customer to conform to his wants/needs, rather than him working for the customer. Ease of access for an example: If I find a need a part quick, Sam cannot help me. Phone call required then they submit the order themselves. Where as I can logon to another place on my phone and it's instant transaction. But Sam feels entitled he's earned that business too, even if he's "consultation/opinion" isn't needed.

I was genuinely asking why he doesn't post on this forum anymore? A fbody specific forum and he doesn't communicate here? There has to be a reason.

I wish him the best of success. Sam is damn knowledgeable and an asset to the community. I've utilized him. I appreciate him and respect him. But the consistent nonsense ls1tech experiences with him, as you even eluded to from in person experience is the issue. Not saving $5 on shipping, that isn't the issue at all.

This post has been edited by dojob: Feb 15 2018, 01:57 PM

[rpoz-29]

I miss your cat stories.

[landstuhltaylor]

How do people know he offers things if he doesn't tell them about it? Especially if it's not specifically listed on his site? I've also never seen any evidence of these claims of manipulating consumers. I have seen BMR and MWC deleting threads left and right to hide things so I can understand his frustration. I don't understand the crapping on him for hiding his wheel specs. It's incredibly easy to find what works off a search. If people don't want to do the research themselves they can hit the easy button and call Sam. Again how is that manipulative?

Mostly, it's just Sam being Sam. Aside from the whining he does sometimes you would know that his customer interaction is just the way he is. Sometimes that can be a bit abrasive and a bit too blunt for people as they aren't ready to listen to what he has to say. Even though we clash sometimes on setup he has always been willing to help make the car better or just lend a hand at events. At Nationals this year he lent me his tire blankets just so that I could have some hope of getting heat in the car. All that after I bought suspension from other vendors as well as some other things from alternate sources. He still critiqued the setup on the car like always and I throw a few friendly jabs back. Just the way it is.

The whining about his whining is what really makes me laugh.

[JimMueller]

I miss your cat stories.

Chester FTMFW

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...ic=8664&hl=

[00 SS]

I've talked to Sam many times and bought many things from him. His attitude is just like mine, no BS. He can come across as telling you what you should do, but I believe it's because he believes that is what's best. Not because he wants to sell you everything he can. His intentions are good and I appreciate his approach. He has never steered me wrong.

I understand this because that's how I deal with my clients. Sometime I come across as inflexible or not willing to listen, but my approach is what I think is in their best interest. I'm just trying to save them from wasting time and money. Yes, I have had pissed off clients, but I also have many that have come back and thanked me in the end.

So, I give Sam the benefit of the doubt. When you call him, he tells you how he sees it. It's up to you to figure out if you agree or not. 9 times out of 10 ( or more), you'll probably find he was right.

I read through the linked thread. I want my 30 minutes back! What a cluster f**k that turned into. I am so glad nothing like that goes on here anymore.

[rpoz-29]

I miss your cat stories.

Chester FTMFW

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...ic=8664&hl=

I loved that mouse.......

[trackbird]

I was genuinely asking why he doesn't post on this forum anymore? A fbody specific forum and he doesn't communicate here? There has to be a reason.

If he did, someone would just scream at him that he's selling stuff (or trying) without being a sponsor here. I honestly believe he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Hell, BMR tried to call him out as posting as another person on LS1tech. Talk about a cluster fuck....when other vendors are even slinging shit at you.

Some people make Sam out to be that evil movie villain...the guy you love to hate. And I guess if that's what makes them happy, they are going to keep doing it.

How do people know he offers things if he doesn't tell them about it? Especially if it's not specifically listed on his site? I've also never seen any evidence of these claims of manipulating consumers. I have seen BMR and MWC deleting threads left and right to hide things so I can understand his frustration. I don't understand the crapping on him for hiding his wheel specs. It's incredibly easy to find what works off a search. If people don't want to do the research themselves they can hit the easy button and call Sam. Again how is that manipulative?

Mostly, it's just Sam being Sam. Aside from the whining he does sometimes you would know that his customer interaction is just the way he is. Sometimes that can be a bit abrasive and a bit too blunt for people as they aren't ready to listen to what he has to say. Even though we clash sometimes on setup he has always been willing to help make the car better or just lend a hand at events. At Nationals this year he lent me his tire blankets just so that I could have some hope of getting heat in the car. All that after I bought suspension from other vendors as well as some other things from alternate sources. He still critiqued the setup on the car like always and I throw a few friendly jabs back. Just the way it is.

The whining about his whining is what really makes me laugh.

That's basically what I was saying above. And lots of stuff isn't on his website because updating the site to reflect every single thing would be another full time job. The problem with making a living in sales is that people hate salesmen...even helpful ones.

I miss your cat stories.

Chester FTMFW

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...ic=8664&hl=

I loved that mouse.......

Ha. Chester and Midnight, those were great days. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[GCrites80s]

One thing I've learned in over 8 years of being in business for myself is that it is very easy after only a couple years to get locked into "how things really are" and "how things work around here". After a while, some things customers and outsiders say sound totally insane. That can put us as business owners (and also our experienced employees) on the defensive very quickly. Really, what the customers say isn't insane from their perspective... they just don't have the deep perspective and intimate knowledge that we do. I had to learn this from my employees when they sat down and had several talks with me. Nearly every car or motorcycle or whatever has a guru who has been at it so long (and also by themselves, with maybe one other person or a few "shop guys" who don't deal with the public that much) and is extremely knowledgeable that it is very hard to contain the instinct not to flip out when things start snowballing. I could name a bunch of these people for various cars or bikes and it all seems to get like this around the 10-15 year mark. Most of the time they don't have a bunch of employees turning over like I do to provide them with feedback and lessons.

[Midnight da Cat]

I miss your cat stories.

Chester FTMFW

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...ic=8664&hl=

I loved that mouse.......

I'm watching you.....

[CrashTestDummy]

I was wondering when Midnight would chime in!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

[trackbird]

I was wondering when Midnight would chime in!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

Be careful, he's the "Taste of Texas" member. He may be down your way these days. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Rentedmule]

Chester FTMFW

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...ic=8664&hl=

That thread was gold.

I have nothing to add re: Strano other than he had the best price I could find on Bilsteins when I was looking and was happy to provide advice over the phone when I bought his swaybars and MC-brace.

[CrashTestDummy]

I was wondering when Midnight would chime in!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

Be careful, he's the "Taste of Texas" member. He may be down your way these days. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Heh, no worries. Our pups are looking for a new butt to sniff. Our current cat is also getting kind of tired of the cold jab as she walks through the room. =8-0

[rpoz-29]

I miss your cat stories.

Chester FTMFW

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...ic=8664&hl=

I loved that mouse.......

I'm watching you.....

Son-of-a-gun...He's still around?? You killed my friend??

This post has been edited by rpoz-29: Feb 18 2018, 01:59 PM

[Smitty2919]

I would suspect Sam doesn't post here because 90+% of members on this forum are self sufficient enough to know better and or know where to get the answer. And if you need him, you call him directly.

He gets more ability to chime in on LS1Tech to make sales, offer "blunt" answers, then people take the comments the wrong way and voila, drama.

The fact that he STILL gets upset about people questioning him is interesting, he needs to learn to let it slide. He is always willing to boast about his many wins as proof to listen to him and do what he says. Which IMO is the wrong approach. My personality does not get along with that style.

As a point of reference, Danny Popp is just as well known if not more (than Sam is to Fbody) in the Corvette crowd with just as many accomplishments, can and will "sell you parts". Granted he does not have a business of his own to keep going AFAIK. Yet Danny can and will talk you though everything and anything and not come off as "do what I say because I said it".

So do I appreciate the work Sam does for the Fbody, yes. Could he take a different approach to avoid raising his own blood pressure, yes. I'm waiting to see Nathan/Danny get their 4th Gen reliable and racing a lot...when wins start coming it will be obvious that Sam's approach to "only soft springs are needed" will be debunked.

This post has been edited by Smitty2919: Feb 23 2018, 06:04 PM