Long crank time before first start of day Options

[Honda93]

In the last week or so, it cranks for 2-3 seconds before starting whereas it used to start immediately. I installed a new starter 6 months ago as you all may recall. I also installed a K&N fuel filter 10 month ago. No issues until last week.

Research online and on FRRAX is pointing to a fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator. Or the battery. Or the spark plugs.

Car runs super fine once started and starts right up once it has been running. If it sits 6+ hours, it'll revert to needing extra time.

Suggestions?

[trackbird]

If you turn the key on (but don't try to start it), do you hear the fuel pump prime for 2 seconds? If so, it's not a fuel pump relay. If not, it likely is a fuel pump relay. The oil pressure switch has an over ride that turns on the fuel pump when it "sees" oil pressure. It's a backup in case the relay goes bad.

[GCrites80s]

Does the car have a distributor, Opti-Spark or coil packs?

[Honda93]

If you turn the key on (but don't try to start it), do you hear the fuel pump prime for 2 seconds? If so, it's not a fuel pump relay. If not, it likely is a fuel pump relay. The oil pressure switch has an over ride that turns on the fuel pump when it "sees" oil pressure. It's a backup in case the relay goes bad.

Yes. I do hear the fuel pump prime.

[Honda93]

Does the car have a distributor, Opti-Spark or coil packs?

Sorry! It's a 2001 Z28, so coil packs.

[CrashTestDummy]

That's a tell tale for a fuel pump. Get a gauge on it and see what the pressure is on the day's first key-on.

[Honda93]

That's a tell tale for a fuel pump. Get a gauge on it and see what the pressure is on the day's first key-on.

Damn. They're a bitch to change, right?

Guess this is a good time to learn about the "trap door" approach, yes?

If this turns out to be the case, isn't this the suggested upgrade?

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/catalo...-fit-fuel-pump/

This post has been edited by Honda93: Sep 2 2017, 05:41 PM

[Honda93]

Or... Is OEM the way to go since the original lasted 15 years?

http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk...954&jsn=459

[Honda93]

Going to have to put a gauge on it. It started right up on two occasions this morning (Sunday) after sitting since Thursday night.

Then, after letting it sit, I turned the key to position 2 (just before start), heard the fuel pump prime, and then put a large rag in front of the Schrader valve and pushed it in... A few drops dribbled out. If it had 40+ psi in there it would have sprayed or "burst" into the rag more than just a few lazy drips.

<sigh> Not looking forward to the job or having to buy the pump because I have a feeling you're all going to say it's the pump/regulator which is all integrated into that single unit.

This post has been edited by Honda93: Sep 3 2017, 07:59 PM

[CrashTestDummy]

That's why the gauges. It's looking like a pump, but you want to make sure.

Yes, they SUCK! Had to do the pump on the SS TWICE, when I discovered the pump assembly was wired wrong. Had to replace te entire tank assembly on the SVO after it sat in a body shop for more than a year, so yes, I feel your pain.

[mikedamageinc]

Do you get any stumble on WOT runs in the upper RPM? Mine was doing that plus the slow start like you mentioned. I did a walbro 255 with racetronix kit and trap door method and it was fairly easy and economical compared to OEM and dropping the tank.

In the mean time, you can turn the key to on for a couple seconds and then crank it, that should help it start quicker.

[GCrites80s]

That's a tell tale for a fuel pump. Get a gauge on it and see what the pressure is on the day's first key-on.

Damn. They're a bitch to change, right?

Guess this is a good time to learn about the "trap door" approach, yes?

If this turns out to be the case, isn't this the suggested upgrade?

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/catalo...-fit-fuel-pump/

Trap door is fine for racecar, but on cars that will see street use the value of (or at least the demand for) the car can be significantly reduced by cutting the hole.

[Honda93]

Do you get any stumble on WOT runs in the upper RPM? Mine was doing that plus the slow start like you mentioned. I did a walbro 255 with racetronix kit and trap door method and it was fairly easy and economical compared to OEM and dropping the tank.

In the mean time, you can turn the key to on for a couple seconds and then crank it, that should help it start quicker.

None that I notice. Pulls strong.

Also, the last two days (3 starts in all) it fired right up.

So, this is the Racetronix part?

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-2361-racetron...p-assembly.aspx

Will I still need to get the Wallbro 255 separately or will the Racetronix do it all? I plan on keeping the motor stock.

This post has been edited by Honda93: Sep 5 2017, 02:36 AM

[Honda93]

Trap door is fine for racecar, but on cars that will see street use the value of (or at least the demand for) the car can be significantly reduced by cutting the hole.

I think an autocrosser would buy it if I were to sell it someday. The previous (original) owner told me at least a dozen times that it had an "autocross patina" to it. It's no show car.

[Shortcutsleeping]

The two times I've encountered this on third gens it has been the fuel pressure regulator. My assumption is it is bleeding off pressure.

After the initial start of the day it would then start fine. Swapped FPR then it would fire up clean in the AM.

Just my .02

Costas
cars and such...

[mikedamageinc]

Do you get any stumble on WOT runs in the upper RPM? Mine was doing that plus the slow start like you mentioned. I did a walbro 255 with racetronix kit and trap door method and it was fairly easy and economical compared to OEM and dropping the tank.

In the mean time, you can turn the key to on for a couple seconds and then crank it, that should help it start quicker.

None that I notice. Pulls strong.

Also, the last two days (3 starts in all) it fired right up.

So, this is the Racetronix part?

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-2361-racetron...p-assembly.aspx

Will I still need to get the Wallbro 255 separately or will the Racetronix do it all? I plan on keeping the motor stock.

That looks like everything you need, I got mine at ws6store though, as long as it's not just the regulator like mentioned above. Mine was going bad for a long time, which is why I probably got the missing and it wasn't severe, just felt like a slight miss close to 6k like it needed a tune up or something.

[JimMueller]

I installed a Racetronix 255LPH pump and hotwire kit back in 2010. I hope you don't need to contact them for support as they are not the friendliest folks for diagnosis. They'll just tell you to RTFM, including their installation docs and all the GM documentation on their website. Be careful putting the float arm back in if you're concerned about an accurate fuel level gauge. I've also intentionally chosen not to use the trap door because it's a street car.

[Honda93]

That looks like everything you need, I got mine at ws6store though, as long as it's not just the regulator like mentioned above. Mine was going bad for a long time, which is why I probably got the missing and it wasn't severe, just felt like a slight miss close to 6k like it needed a tune up or something.

Isn't the regulator in the fuel tank on the pump assembly on the 1999-2002 cars? Or an I mistaking it for something else?

[Honda93]

I've also intentionally chosen not to use the trap door because it's a street car.

Solely for resale purposes? Was it aesthetics? Water intrusion? Chassis rigidity?

[Mojave]

I cut the trap door on my last street car, and was very happy I did.