3rd gen pan hard bar relocation brackets Options

[IROC383]

Guys,
Where can I find 3rd gen pan hard relocation brackets for sale. I'm having a 8,8 ford reagent built for my 85 camaro and wanted to add them. Thanks

[Blainefab]

Guys,
Where can I find 3rd gen pan hard relocation brackets for sale. I'm having a 8,8 ford reagent built for my 85 camaro and wanted to add them. Thanks

I've been using the UMI bare steel relo brackets on 3rd and 4th gen axles, but I'd be surprised if they fit a Ford housing. I don't see a listing for that part for Ford at UMI. I would wait till you have it installed and see if you really need them.

edit - my reading comprehension failed me here, I am talking about the LCA relo brackets and your are asking about the PH relo.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Feb 10 2014, 12:42 AM

[Interceptor]

Is the new upper bar pretty important, or just mostly for exhaust clearance?

This post has been edited by Interceptor: Feb 8 2014, 11:53 PM

[Blainefab]

Is the new upper bar pretty important, or just mostly for exhaust clearance?

If you mean the bent upper PH brace that the drag oriented shops sell, don't do that. The upper brace is part of the chassis, it needs to be stiff. Putting 2 bends in it makes it a spring and it can flex under cornering loads, affecting your thrust angle and stressing the PH frame mount.

Yes, they make that piece for folks that put 2 over axle exhaust tailpipes there, and aren't concerned with cornering loads.

[Interceptor]

So all we need is the brackets, and keep the stock arm? I imagine UMI would sell them separately.

This post has been edited by Interceptor: Feb 9 2014, 06:34 PM

[Blainefab]

The upper PH brace is a U shaped stamping with solid steel sleeve on one end and a flat flange with 3 bolts on the other. Make sure all the fasteners are tight and the holes have not been ovaled. The 3 bolts have washers with sharp edges that dig into and lock the brace in place. The sleeve end has bumps that are tight to the the bolt. If this brace moves around then the frame mount gets flexed and can crack right off the car. The brace itself can be boxed with a flat plate to make it more rigid.

To lower the PH I use the Unbalanced Engineering PH drop brackets, I use the UMI brackets for the LCA relocation. The UE PH drop brackets can be used with the stock PH but it is best to replace it with a rod end/rod end PH.

This post has been edited by Blainefab: Feb 10 2014, 12:44 AM

[IROC383]

The upper PH brace is a U shaped stamping with solid steel sleeve on one end and a flat flange with 3 bolts on the other. Make sure all the fasteners are tight and the holes have not been ovaled. The 3 bolts have washers with sharp edges that dig into and lock the brace in place. The sleeve end has bumps that are tight to the the bolt. If this brace moves around then the frame mount gets flexed and can crack right off the car. The brace itself can be boxed with a flat plate to make it more rigid.

To lower the PH I use the Unbalanced Engineering PH drop brackets, I use the UMI brackets for the LCA relocation. The UE PH drop brackets can be used with the stock PH but it is best to replace it with a rod end/rod end PH.

The company building ford 8.8 will build tubes to 4th gen length and reweld all brackets to mount back up to 3rd gen. UMI sells both LCA and pan hard bar relocation bracket? What's UMI stand for so I can order them. Thanks guys.

Check out Lindsey's ring and pinion, Pickens South Carolina. Shop is down the street from Hawks 3rd gen. They rebuilt my T56 for a fair price and was well done.

[Al weyman]

I got mine from JEGS, fitted well and no probs thus far, its a road racing car.

[FASTFATBOY]

Here is the Jegs link if anyone searches this.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/41055/10...roductId=754011

I can't fing the UMI ones.

Seems you need the axle side the most.

[Blainefab]

Here is the Jegs link if anyone searches this.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/41055/10...roductId=754011

I can't fing the UMI ones.

Seems you need the axle side the most.

This one isn't going to work for us.
1) it only does one end, both ends need to be dropped
2) the adjustment holes preclude installing a brace from the bracket to the axle, which is absolutely necessary. FWIW I have never felt the need to adjust the height.
3) from Jegs ad copy "Can be easily bolted on, although welding is reccomended for safety." IOW bolted on is not safe.

Get them here instead: http://unbalancedengineering.com/Camaro/ For $165 you will get all the parts needed, and if you really want to be able to adjust them, some fabrication would allow that. I'm pretty sure Jon A has a write up here on Frrax on how he did it.

[FASTFATBOY]

Here is the Jegs link if anyone searches this.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Jegster/550/41055/10...roductId=754011

I can't fing the UMI ones.

Seems you need the axle side the most.

This one isn't going to work for us.
1) it only does one end, both ends need to be dropped
2) the adjustment holes preclude installing a brace from the bracket to the axle, which is absolutely necessary. FWIW I have never felt the need to adjust the height.
3) from Jegs ad copy "Can be easily bolted on, although welding is reccomended for safety." IOW bolted on is not safe.

Get them here instead: http://unbalancedengineering.com/Camaro/ For $165 you will get all the parts needed, and if you really want to be able to adjust them, some fabrication would allow that. I'm pretty sure Jon A has a write up here on Frrax on how he did it.

My drivers side is higher than my passenger side, I am only looking to level the bar.

I will brace it like John A did his on Corner Carvers.

$165 is STEEP for those brackets.

[nape]

My drivers side is higher than my passenger side, I am only looking to level the bar.

I will brace it like John A did his on Corner Carvers.

$165 is STEEP for those brackets.

That's what you think until you drive a car with a lowered rear roll center. $165 may sound expensive, but it's some of the best money I've spent other then putting in a 3-link.

[Blainefab]

My drivers side is higher than my passenger side, I am only looking to level the bar.

I will brace it like John A did his on Corner Carvers.

$165 is STEEP for those brackets.

That's what you think until you drive a car with a lowered rear roll center. $165 may sound expensive, but it's some of the best money I've spent other then putting in a 3-link.

TJ is not the first person to recommend lowering the roll center, and I'm not the second:

It transforms the car, $165 for those brackets is the best bang for the buck that exists for these cars.

[nape]

TJ is not the first person to recommend lowering the roll center, and I'm not the second:

It transforms the car, $165 for those brackets is the best bang for the buck that exists for these cars.

As a data point, a friend had a nice TT 3rd gen he put together. It was more of a fun car but he had spent a bunch of money on tubular suspension up front to the tune of $2-3k from Spohn. He took it back to Mid-Ohio and didn't go noticably faster. He was asking me what I had done and why my car was so fast. These were my recommendation to him. Two months later, he made no changes other than these brackets and a pair of 350lb rear springs. Dropped 1.5 seconds on the first session out.

[Interceptor]

Why do the spring rates need to be changed? And what happens if you don't, for any given spring? Many of us on this board don't have the seat time to know the difference between various spring rates, esp in the rear. I'm still running on cut WS6 coils all around, with LCA reloc brackets in place.

This post has been edited by Interceptor: May 14 2014, 12:59 PM

[trackbird]

Why do the spring rates need to be changed? And what happens if you don't, for any given spring? Many of us on this board don't have the seat time to know the difference between various spring rates, esp in the rear. I'm still running on cut WS6 coils all around, with LCA reloc brackets in place.

After it got ugly, a bunch of posts were deleted by the original poster, but there's still good info here:

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=5624

[nape]

Why do the spring rates need to be changed? And what happens if you don't, for any given spring? Many of us on this board don't have the seat time to know the difference between various spring rates, esp in the rear. I'm still running on cut WS6 coils all around, with LCA reloc brackets in place.

Lowering the rear roll center is going to make the spring/bar seem softer in roll compared to the stock RC height. This helps with what circle track guys refer to as "side bite". I'm all the way up to 550lb springs and a 24mm bar, but I built my own PHB axle bracket when I put a 9" in the car and I have more adjustability (lower + holes on 1" centers) over the UBE brackets.

[StanIROCZ]

Why do the spring rates need to be changed? And what happens if you don't, for any given spring? Many of us on this board don't have the seat time to know the difference between various spring rates, esp in the rear. I'm still running on cut WS6 coils all around, with LCA reloc brackets in place.

Lowering the rear roll center is going to make the spring/bar seem softer in roll compared to the stock RC height. This helps with what circle track guys refer to as "side bite". I'm all the way up to 550lb springs and a 24mm bar, but I built my own PHB axle bracket when I put a 9" in the car and I have more adjustability (lower + holes on 1" centers) over the UBE brackets.

You've also raised your front roll center with the extended ball joints. This will also shift handling balance to the rear.

The last 2 years I was using 1200/300 36/24 mostly, 400 rears on occasions. I added a splitter and now I'm very loose with 1600/300. Tire and track grippyness can drastically change the balance so come prepared with ways to adjust. I think aero imbalance is my issue now.

[nape]

Why did you back the rear spring rate back down? Just wondering about your feedback. Every time I raise the spring rate, the car gets faster. I still think there's more left with additional rear spring rate on smooth tracks but rear bar stiffness will have to decrease.

Also, what shocks/struts do you have and what are their settings?

[StanIROCZ]

I could get away 400 rear at Gingerman if my tires were fairly good but I still think it might have been a little loose. Grattan is slicker esp since they put tar down in the corners, and mornings there I was very loose even with 300 but by the time afternoon comes around and the dew/moisture goes away it is good. Koni Struts and a very early pair of UBE Bilstein rears from Casey’s car that Jason co-drove. Historically I always had the struts at half stiff but in April this year I went full stiff and it helped. UBE chassis side bracket 0.75” above the standard, as delivered, height. The rear of my car is very low so I couldn’t get my axle side bracket any lower so 0.75 above is what I could get the bar level with. Front is low and RC is .5” below ground. Considering raising the rear ride height 0.5” to help with tire rub since I’m switching to 305/645/18 Pirelli.

I had Blaine bend me up a rear sway bar that I could chassis mount to remove unsprung and have sliding end link clamps for stiffness adjustment but I never got it finished. It would be nice to have easier adjustment.

whats your set up? Or since you race you don't share (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.gif)

Reason for edit: sway not PHB