Road Race AutoX rebuild, Need advice from experienced folks on improving my car Options

[pharmd]

Guys need some advice here from folks more experienced than me. I have a 2002 Camaro SS M6 (white with black roof and black wheels). On our way to the Mid West Musclecar Classic, we happened upon 3 fellow racers and while having some fun on a backroad my engine detonated, developed a upper valvetrain noise, then deteriorated rapidly (we barely made it home). Needless to say I was really disappointed I was finally able to make an event, and I didn't even get to run.

SO I have some major decisions to undertake and I need some input. I will have to build a new motor. I have an LS1 (stock) block and LS2 (stock) block and FAST 102 intake/TB to start with. Im not sure what the LS1 needs, the LS2 was removed for spinning rod bearing #6. Should I rebuild the LS2 budget style with slight over bore, keep the stock crank, get forged rods/pistons, a good cylinder head and custom cam? This combo would probably land around 470-480rwhp (my old LS1 was 456/415rw on a conservative dyno). Or should I spend another 3-5K and build a stroker shortblock, good heads, cam etc. The end price would probably be a 5K difference I feel. Is an accusump pretty much a good insurance policy?

I need to upgrade brakes (stock ls1). I am considering Z06 conversion, I think this is a very cost effective and reasonable option to begin attending PT events with...Due to the cost of everything, what if I had to do fronts now then rears later? Will it cause me problems or should I just bite the bullet and upgrade both now?

Coilovers...I have Koni SA shocks on now with a german spring. At the very least I need to pick a different spring because the car is too low and drags the cutout on stuff). The rear suspension is NOT a coilover type setup, BUT they do make a conversion for this car. For those who have converted another generation Fbody from stock style to a 4 link or other coilover rear setup do you feel it was a major advantage. I have heard the argument that the cost of converting to a coilover doesn't justify the performance benefit on a SRA car. The cost difference here between just upgrading springs (+ sways) vs coilovers (sways), is probably $2500.

Rear end. stock 10 bolt with 3.42 gears now. If I plan to keep a NA powerplant making between 475-550rwhp/475-500rwtq, should I just jump staight to 9" or is a 12 bolt an option? From what I have seen for a FAB9 housing with aluminum center section, Detroit locker, etc etc I'm looking at close to $4k. The issue here is that it affects wheel choice (as I could get the new rear narrowed and allow me to run a wider rear wheel vs stock), and brake selection (10 bolt c clipped vs 9" not). And detriot locker vs wavetrac vs trutrac?

Other ancillary parts needed (from what research I have done) are: new seats, new steering wheel, new TURN ONE power steering pump, 6 point cage and harnesses, battery relocation kit, and I really need to ditch the single cutout and go with dual low profile cutouts $400 issue.

This car is NOT my daily driver, but I do want it to be something I could get in and go on the power tour with, or drive 1000 miles to an event if I wanted to. I am keeping AC and creature comforts. I want the car to be very capable on AutoX/Roadcourse/speed stop, that is the car's focus, being drivable to cruise-ins etc is also a requirement.

Please help a fella trying to make smart choices to start with. I don't want to just buy a bunch of parts. If the motor hadn't blown my plan was to do the brakes, suspension, seats and hit RTTH and the LSfest. Then try to make most events next year. My conscience can't really take buying all this stuff at once (since its just a hobby), but what parts I buy, I don't want to skimp on, only resulting in me having to buy replacements soon after. I don't have a budget per se, I could spend probably $25-35K and make it REALLY competitive, but it would be alot easier to swallow spending $10K this year, then in a year or so, spend another 5K, then a year later another 5K etc.

Thanks for your responses!

[CrashTestDummy]

What class are you planning to run in autocross? That will determine the route and range of your modifications. While you can upgrade the engine and suspension to make it a competent autocross car, it may not be a _competitive_ car, depending on modifications and the class that throws you into. If you are planning on street-driving the car a lot, ESP would probably be about the best class, but you're limited in what you can touch/upgrade.

[Blainefab]

Ya, figure out what class you are targeting and we can help make you more competitive. You'll find that we tend to talk about SCCA and NASA classes for competitive autocross, and NASA HPDE for open track (non-comp) or time trial (comp against the clock).

You've already made some compromises that will limit your competitiveness in most classes - maintaining street use will be a disadvantage compared to a car that is dedicated to the class.

You'll find for autox/HPDE/TT that suspension and chassis and driver comfort/safety mods will provide more performance gain than motor stuff. If you were budget limited I'd say put a boneyard motor in it. It sounds like you've got room with your budget but I still recommend keeping the motor build simple and reliable. Keep the OEM knock sense and control. If you were able to break your motor on the street you wouldn't get very far with the same build on track. Budget for coolers. Best oil control is dry sump, but that need depends on the grip level of the car.

The C6 Z06 brakes would be a poor choice - most serious Corvettes have replaced them. You will be full weight/hi HP so better brakes up front are in order. Base C6 brakes are most cost effective, Stoptech arguably better at a price. Upgrading from one to the other can get pricey if you need to replace the spindles. Stock rear brakes are fine. Pad choice depends on experience level and tire choice.

The Global West front coilover kit allows use of racing springs in whatever rate you need. They will work with your Konis, and are height adjustable.

No need for rear coilovers - the tight space requires using 2.25" springs and that limits shock choice. OEM pigtail springs are available in the rate you need, shim for height changes.

The Fbod is a 3link + TA, changing to a 4link is a drag race thing. Upgrade the LCA's/PH/TA and you are good. www.unbalancedengineering.com

If you haven't blown up the 10bolt yet you can stick with it, no need for narrowing, that's a drag race thing. There is room for 11" with 315's with minor adjustments to the wheelwells. When you blow up the 10bolt you can drop in a Strange 12bolt with a Eaton diff that will be plug and play for about $2600

4pt rollbar, seat, harnesses is about $2500 for a really nice setup. You will lose the use of the rear seat.

Leave the battery where it is unless class rules call for a cutoff switch. Use a PC680 or PC925.

Skip the cutouts - if there are any venues left that still allow open exhaust, they won't for much longer. Noise regs are here to stay.

Welcome to frrax - you'll find this site is different than most. We have a useable history of threads that deal with all of these items. I encourage you to do some digging around, read the stickies. They will fill in the basics, and we can help with the specifics.

[CrashTestDummy]

Start here:

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=5255

[dailydriver]

LISTEN to Alan (Blaine), and the rest. They know their ****!!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

You sound smart/informed enough to know that once you start doing suspension mods which help turning left and right, and braking, you give up MOST (if not all) chances of doing an even average 60' time/launch at the strip, correct?? (The ONLY cars I've ever heard of that could turn ~10 second {or better} 1/4 miles, and still lap a road course quickly just by changing wheels/tires, and doing some suspension adjustments were some select, VERY well sorted, C5/C6 vettes. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

Like Alan has said, if you plan on putting a wide/sticky enough tire on it; the money you were going to spend to have the power available to challange Supras on the highway would be better spent on a good dry sump system, reliable/safe build, STRONG valvetrain, mid power and a NOT 'peaky'/peak hp type cam, and maybe a performance T56 rebuild (with an alloy flywheel {ALSO a 60' KILLER}, and a strong, reliable clutch), and possibly a carbon fiber driveshaft (VERY optional, but also helps smooth out the NVH a little, which will be exacerbated with a stiff, rod-ended or Roto-Jointed, road race/ax type suspension).

Cutouts are JIVE, and absolutely label one as a drag race ONLY type (or worse yet, 'street racer'). get a good, properly sized, free flowing exhaust system, and if it is way too quiet for you, just use a Borla XR1 muffler in it.

[pharmd]

Guys, I don't plan on running in those types of events per se. I am talking about pro-touring events which are run what you brung open type deals (think Optima Street Car Invitational). The rules there are safety and tire based, other than that, no HP limits, you just can't have a tube frame all out race car, its got to be something streetable...HVAC, stereo, etc. This may sound ghey, but I don't have the time to get into rules and classes etc. I just want to go to these events, and some open events where folks are having a track day. I know I'm probably going about this wrong...I should not worry about power, setup my car to handle and just get lots of seat time, then as I get more comfortable with the car, or learn its deficiencies, then start upgrading more parts.

Right now, the car is blown up, so the motor has to be fixed. I have priced several different options: used 60K mile LS2 $3500, used L92 $4500, rebuilt LS1 $3500 (not forged), built stroker motors 402-427 ranging from $7000-10,000. IMHO it doesn't make since buying a used stock motor and paying $4000-5000 for it, I don't know that I want to swing $7000 just for motor right now, so I may go back to the LS1. My motor will be certainly geared towards mid-range average power, not peak power. My LS1 that was in it, made 456rwhp/415rwtq, and was super driveable with its mid-sized cam and killer heads/intake. I planned to go with a similar setup if I go that way. The caveat is these are unlimited cars, the last race I was at there were 500rwhp+ cars everywhere. Most of these cars are 1st Gen/2nd Gen Fbody, G bodies, Nova's, Older Mustangs with LSX swaps, T56's, Forgeline wheels with Detroit Speed chassis. The events are autox, road course and speed stop, and a cruise/show portion.

The most economical suspension idea is to swap in Strano springs with my Koni's, and strano sways in place of stokers and call it a day for less than $1k (IMHO). Later on I could work with someone to get a coilover setup....Ridetech is the company that is close to me that I can take my car to, they can 4 corner weigh it, get spring rates etc....they have a triple adjustable reseviored coilover for my fronts for about $1200.

I have seen several folks recommend staying with the 10 bolt, so I would probably do that...Just service it, and maybe add the aluminum diff cover...should I stick with the 3.42 or go 3.73??? I know alot of folks say sticking with 3.42 you shift less around the road course and it ends up being quicker, but with the powerband of a small motor, I may need some get to get it out of some turns?

I know you guys didn't like z06 brakes, but there are several folks in these events that are or have run them successfully for quite some time. IDK where the bad rap comes from on these, I heard the same thing on LS1tech and I think GMHTP has the CTS-V brakes on STI killer, and said they worked well, but didn't bite as well as they had hoped. Brian Finch who usually is the quickest guy at these events, ran the Z06 brake for several years and actually recommeded them to me...The front kit from KORE3 is about $1200, and I guess the plan is to run a less aggressive bad on the rear to help bias... Wilwood has a 6 piston setup that is like $1800, but the baer etc are upwards of $2500-3500.

I am thinking a cage may be overkill and just be extra weight, but if I am going to get out and turn some real speed on the road course, its probably a smart thing to do....Mid West Chassis has a chrome moly weld in 6pt cage for $350 + shipping.

Seats and harnesses are $$. I can get a decent set of Corbeau for about $900 in microsuede, harnesses are another $350 probably, but those are a necessity.

I planned on getting an Improved Racing oil pan baffle, and an accusump system, in addition to a Turn1 power steering pump.

The oil control is pretty much manadatory IMHO no matter what motor I run, the power steering can probably be later (but its not terribly expensive so it would be an easy upgrade).

The only reason I mention 4 link, is DSE makes a Quadralink rear end for these 1st and 2nd gen cars that works very well, and I think its a modified 4 link type setup (but don't quote me).

The cutout issue is for car shows and cruise-ins which I plan to take the car out to. Far as I can tell there haven't been noise restrictions on any of the events I've been to. My car is normally EXTREMELY quiet, with the magnaflow exhaust and dynamat and I need that quiet to keep my wife happy when she actually rides in it with me (she hates loud). SO the cutout provides a nice compromise (similar to the butterfly valve that opens on the C6 Z exhaust), quiet when crusing, and Rowdy when you want it.

I agree on the light flywheel and T56 rebuild, but it will have to be when I can afford it....I work with RPM transmission on all my trannies, so I would utilize them, and I could swap everything Flywheel, clutch, etc when I do that. The clutch is a LS7 clutch with Tick Master Cylinder (which I should have avoided). And I can appreciate the driveshaft, this car is smooth, but my previous 4th gen had alot of NVH with the driveshaft.

Do you guys have idea's on wheel/tire setu? Im leaning towards forgestar or raceline wheels, due to price and performance, and on tires I wanted to run a 315 rear and 295 front, and I think 18" is the right size??? I guess its confusing because with big brakes on front I have to consider wheel clearance, and in the rear, I know folks run 315's but I'm really concerned about rubbing issues, because I have rubbing right now with only a 275 (I realize that backspacing would probably help that). BFG sponsors alot of the events so I want to support them. They have a new tire coming out in April, so I could try to get by until then, but that is probably the modification that will make the largest single improvement, so I probably need to do it soon. The other consideration is this: so I buy my wheel tire setup...then my rear blows, so am I screwed somewhat because when I redo the rear I could narrow it and go with a potentially wider wheel/tire out back...What about the consideration of minitubs? 315's are great, but I know alot of these guys are running 335 or wider on rear.

So, which route would you guys go on motor? What rear gear? Wheels /tires...

I appreciate the input on this more than you know.

[Mojave]

I'd put a stock motor in it for cheap, put some aggressive pads on the front stock brakes, parts store pads in the rear, a set of sticky 275's on 17x9's, fix the 10 bolt with stock 3.42's, Stranos springs and bars with Koni SA's and go get seat time.

Or, for the numbers being tossed around in this thread, fix the car as cheap as possible, sell it, and buy a C5 (ideally a Z06, but a base model works just fine too). Faster than a street f-body, and has all those creature comforts.

YMMV.

This post has been edited by Mojave: Jun 5 2012, 01:10 AM

[pharmd]

I'd put a stock motor in it for cheap, put some aggressive pads on the front stock brakes, parts store pads in the rear, a set of sticky 275's on 17x9's, fix the 10 bolt with stock 3.42's, Stranos springs and bars with Koni SA's and go get seat time.

Or, for the numbers being tossed around in this thread, fix the car as cheap as possible, sell it, and buy a C5 (ideally a Z06, but a base model works just fine too). Faster than a street f-body, and has all those creature comforts.

YMMV.

While I have heard this advice before, that kinda defeats the purpose of what pro-touring is. You are taking a car that wasn't really designed to compete with a corvette, then you modify, tweak and message it until it does. Mark Stielow's Red Devil won the OUSCI in 2011, a c5z won it in 2012. IMHO the vette is really an unfair advantage, this "movement" is about taking muscle cars, and making them turn...SRA cars, not IRS cars per se. Plus I already have the car and I grew up with 4th gens, so I'm keeping it :-)

Its not about being the fastest/quickest IMHO, its about making your car progressively faster, improving as a driver and suspension tuner, and most of all having FUN. I have a stressful long hours job and this is just a hobby or outlet for me to blow off some steam and have fun. Having said that, I still want the car to be safe and competitive, and this is why I am asking for your input.

Thanks for your input!

This post has been edited by pharmd: Jun 5 2012, 01:24 AM

[nape]

It's hard to give you stout advice because everything you want to do is a compromise and the cars you want to run against have a ton more money (or exponentially more time) into them.

Fast, cheap, expensive sounding parts on a build sheet. Pick two.

I'm pretty good at going fast for (relatively) cheap but it's a lot of work and not much is blingy. 4-piston brakes, OEM wheels, making your own suspension pieces (or at least buying the ones that actually matter).

[pharmd]

It's hard to give you stout advice because everything you want to do is a compromise and the cars you want to run against have a ton more money (or exponentially more time) into them.

Fast, cheap, expensive sounding parts on a build sheet. Pick two.

I'm pretty good at going fast for (relatively) cheap but it's a lot of work and not much is blingy. 4-piston brakes, OEM wheels, making your own suspension pieces (or at least buying the ones that actually matter).

unstout thoughts?

[Chris]

I don't know if you're going to 'find' your answers here because everybody that posts here, have to build their cars to some kind of rule book (NASA, SCCA etc). Pro Touring to me has always been about 'run what you brung and hope you brung enough' mindset. All those 'top running' Pro Touring cars are $100,000 600hp street cars. Not very many of those around here. In all the coverage I've seen on Pro Touring, you are going to have a heck of a time making a 'competitive' 4th gen without spending $$$. Some folks here run spring rates upwards of 1000 pounds on the front to be competitive. I don't think I'd want to drive 500 miles to a event with those rates. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone here running DSE parts. It's all a compromise. A compfy, full weight 4th gen just won't be competitive. And without alot of seat time already, you will really be behind. Driving wise, Sam Strano is one of the best in regards to driving a 4th gen fast. IMHO, you will need that level of talent to drive a full weight 4th gen that fast to keep up at a Pro Touring event. I'll go out on a limb here and say that Pro Touring isn't taken that serious here (they're not really 'racing'), but there is a HUGH amount of tech here if you want a car to have FUN with.

[nape]

unstout thoughts?

Advice worth a shit.

[Blainefab]

I am talking about pro-touring events which are run what you brung open type deals (think Optima Street Car Invitational). The rules there are safety and tire based

Rules are here: http://www.optimainvitational.com/rules_2010.html

Ridetech is the company that is close to me that I can take my car to, they can 4 corner weigh it, get spring rates etc....they have a triple adjustable reseviored coilover for my fronts for about $1200.

Global West makes a front coilover kit for $200. Add your choice of springs for about $120 a pair. Adjustable height, fits on your Koni SA. I'd recommend 600# for your usage.

In the rear, 12" tall pigtail springs, $120 pair I recommend starting with 200, if you drop the panhard you can go higher.

I have seen several folks recommend staying with the 10 bolt, so I would probably do that...Just service it, and maybe add the aluminum diff cover...should I stick with the 3.42 or go 3.73??? I know alot of folks say sticking with 3.42 you shift less around the road course and it ends up being quicker, but with the powerband of a small motor, I may need some get to get it out of some turns?

I'd do the 3.73

I know you guys didn't like z06 brakes, but there are several folks in these events that are or have run them successfully for quite some time. IDK where the bad rap comes from on these, I heard the same thing on LS1tech and I think GMHTP has the CTS-V brakes on STI killer, and said they worked well, but didn't bite as well as they had hoped. Brian Finch who usually is the quickest guy at these events, ran the Z06 brake for several years and actually recommeded them to me...The front kit from KORE3 is about $1200, and I guess the plan is to run a less aggressive bad on the rear to help bias... Wilwood has a 6 piston setup that is like $1800, but the baer etc are upwards of $2500-3500.

The C6Z06 have problems with 30 minute sessions on a RR track. On one side the rotor is backwards, and the individual padlets wear fast and are expensive.

bite is totally up to the pad choice - there are dozens. Raybestos ST41F/43R is a good combo for the Fbody

The base C6 front brake (very similar to the C5 Z06) setup with Trackbrackets is a good, proven system with plenty of pad choices. Good cooling is important but depends on your style and the tire choice.

I am thinking a cage may be overkill and just be extra weight, but if I am going to get out and turn some real speed on the road course, its probably a smart thing to do....Mid West Chassis has a chrome moly weld in 6pt cage for $350 + shipping.

That is a drag race rollbar. There is no need to spend extra for ChroMo, but you will be better protected by a 4pt with straight backstays and a diagonal, and a proper height harness bar, and one that is fitted close to the chassis for maximum headroom. A rollbar in a street car is a liability - it takes some effort to minimize the risk, way more than a disclaimer that it is not for street use. This one is popular http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=14996

Seats and harnesses are $$. I can get a decent set of Corbeau for about $900 in microsuede, harnesses are another $350 probably, but those are a necessity.

I don't recommend Corbeau, get some Pontiac 4th gen seats - they have a separate head rest and are useable with harnesses

Schroth Clubman 6pt FIA camlock for $200 per side

I planned on getting an Improved Racing oil pan baffle, and an accusump system, in addition to a Turn1 power steering pump.

all good

The only reason I mention 4 link, is DSE makes a Quadralink rear end for these 1st and 2nd gen cars that works very well, and I think its a modified 4 link type setup (but don't quote me).

The 4th gen suspension is worlds better then the 1/2 gens, a 4link is a step backward for a car that turns. Rod end LCA/ PH, lower the PH, UEDCTA is the standard for a 4th gen build.

with Tick Master Cylinder (which I should have avoided).

I've had no problem with the OEM master cyl, and have heard lots of complaints about the Tick. What have you found to be the problem with it?

Check out the Weld RTS wheels. 315s will fit, there is an extensive thread with all the skinny - one essential item is a rodend PH to limit side to side deflection. Roll the outer fender, do some inner fenderwell massaging, spacers to fine tune. http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?s=&...st&p=159253
http://www.blainefabrication.com/projects/...216736808_b.jpg

[pharmd]

Blainfab thanks for your response, you guys on here have been the most help I have found on this topic, its obvious you "get" the concept of what a forum is all about, and your very passionate about Autox/road racing!


Did you mean Ground Control? I know GLobal West makes "some" suspension parts for the 4th gen, but I didn't see coilovers on their website? Do you think these have the edge on Strano's because they are height adjustable? Does GC also make the rear spring setup also or is it a conversion setup?


Would you think their would be any utlity in going ahead and adding the diff girdle while I'm at it?

So you feel that is a more cost efffective braking setup for repeated bouts of Road Racing, vs going aftermarket or CTS-V etc? Is KORE3 a good source for this brake as well...I am pretty sure they sell the base C6 brake conversion?

I had a 4th gen TA, eventually swapped the factory seats out to Corbeau CR1's. They seemed to work better for spirited driving? I realize the quality with Corbeau isn't great, but compared to the seats in a 335i or my DD VW MKVI GTI, the TA seats are not at the same level IMHO. BUT they are light years better than the current factory seats in the camaro. I will check out those harnesses...is it your opinion that you really don't need a racing style seat if you have harnesses to hold you in place?

So the UEDCTA would be a solid purchase? The only stock suspension parts still left on the car are sways and TA. Everything is UMI, rotojoint when available and adjustable. I did go with the UMI RR K member, which most feel is not adequate, but its what I have so I have to run it. We will see if it can handle the stress.

Would you agree that strano sways are a solid choice as well?


Its just super stiff, making it hard to modulate clutch pressure when going stoplight to stop light. A more stock light weight on pedal effort would be better IMHO.


Yeah, the fender rolling and messaging of the fenderwell scares the crap out of me (fearing screwing my paint up), so I will try to find someone who is able to do this for me ( I live in BFE tho). The welds are $2500+ a set...do you think they are superior to the ones I mentioned ( you get way you pay for), because there was a thread or 2 on LS1tech that talked about poor quality with RTS...
You have suggestions on overall size 18 vs 17" wheel...suggestion on backspacing front/rear to clear the vette brakes up front?
Tire choice is limited to 200 treadwear or higher...in the sizes you recommend do you have suggestions?
Also, do you think RTS would be a better thought than just doing an OEM style wheel (cost effective), I realize the RTS are significantly lighter and should be equally strong, just cost effective stand point?

Any thoughts on the Motor issue....should I just throw together a stock like LS1, or go ahead and build a nicer motor...the price difference is quite significant on those options, the quote I just got on a fully assembled 408 LS2 (using my block), using K1 crank, JE pistons, Scat h beam ultralight rods, Morel lifters etc, was about $7700 but didnt' include cylinder heads.

Again thanks so much for your thorough responses...

[Mojave]

I'd put a stock motor in it for cheap, put some aggressive pads on the front stock brakes, parts store pads in the rear, a set of sticky 275's on 17x9's, fix the 10 bolt with stock 3.42's, Stranos springs and bars with Koni SA's and go get seat time.

Or, for the numbers being tossed around in this thread, fix the car as cheap as possible, sell it, and buy a C5 (ideally a Z06, but a base model works just fine too). Faster than a street f-body, and has all those creature comforts.

YMMV.

While I have heard this advice before, that kinda defeats the purpose of what pro-touring is. You are taking a car that wasn't really designed to compete with a corvette, then you modify, tweak and message it until it does. Mark Stielow's Red Devil won the OUSCI in 2011, a c5z won it in 2012. IMHO the vette is really an unfair advantage, this "movement" is about taking muscle cars, and making them turn...SRA cars, not IRS cars per se. Plus I already have the car and I grew up with 4th gens, so I'm keeping it :-)

Its not about being the fastest/quickest IMHO, its about making your car progressively faster, improving as a driver and suspension tuner, and most of all having FUN. I have a stressful long hours job and this is just a hobby or outlet for me to blow off some steam and have fun. Having said that, I still want the car to be safe and competitive, and this is why I am asking for your input.

Thanks for your input!

Most Pro-Touring cars (that I've seen, anyway) aren't built for actual performance, they are built for looks and impressive spec sheets, with little to no focus on parts that actually improve the cars performance, especially relative to the cost. How many people are calculating suspension ride frequencies, roll rates, roll steer, and anti-squat with these custom 4 links and C5 suspensions grafted onto cars? Who is dynoing their shocks, measuring Ackerman, bump steer, and tire temps?

There are a few Pro-Tourers doing these things, but the vast majority (again, in my limited experience) spend lots of money for shiny parts so they can say they have a Corvette suspension, Corvette brakes, etc, etc, rather than engineering the proper solution.

If you want to make your car better on a budget, I'd start getting track time and see what actually needs upgrading, rather than what the Pro-Touring guys think need upgrading.

YMMV.

[dailydriver]

A lot of peeps on here do not like Corbeau because NOTHING they make currently (INCLUDING their one piece, fiberglass composite, 'racing' shells) meets FIA/SFI/etc. safety specs/homologations.

IF you could afford to step up to; Momo, Racetech, specific Sparcos/Cobras, etc. {Recaro shells are OK, but over-priced for what they are} it would be A LOT more acceptable on here (AND better for your OWN safety!).

The dilemma is that recliners (even 'race-type/shaped/BIG bolstered ones) are NOT very safe in an all-out/full-on road course situation (besides NOT meeting those afforementioned safety specs), and one piece 'shells'/alloy seats are NOT very safe/durable for street use unless you have at least a GOOD 4 pt. bar with a SOLID backbraced harness bar (which, as Alan said IS a liability on the street, if not an out and out safety/inspection/LEO issue). (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

3.73s with a stock MN6 ratioed T56 in an LS1 f body will give you the same overall ratios as a stock 3.42/MN12 T56 boxed C5 Z06. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I was regretting not getting the Tick master when I did my LS7 clutch setup, now after hearing your comment on them, I'm glad I went with the stock piece!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (But I did get their remote speed bleeder, which I love!)

I know it is THE 'thing' in Pro Touring (especially on the 1st and 2nd gens), but EVERYONE on here has an extreme dislike for 'staggered' wheel/tire setups (for handling/balance reasons).

The reason C5/6 Vettes can get away with it is lighter overall weight, and more importantly, BETTER WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION. That being said, there are even some C5 and C6 open trackers/road racers/etc. who use an even setup all around as well.

This post has been edited by dailydriver: Jun 5 2012, 10:27 PM

[pharmd]

A lot of peeps on here do not like Corbeau because NOTHING they make currently (INCLUDING their one piece, fiberglass composite, 'racing' shells) meets FIA/SFI/etc. safety specs/homologations.

IF you could afford to step up to; Momo, Racetech, specific Sparcos/Cobras, etc. {Recaro shells are OK, but over-priced for what they are} it would be A LOT more acceptable on here (AND better for your OWN safety!).

The dilemma is that recliners (even 'race-type/shaped/BIG bolstered ones) are NOT very safe in an all-out/full-on road course situation (besides NOT meeting those afforementioned safety specs), and one piece 'shells'/alloy seats are NOT very safe/durable for street use unless you have at least a GOOD 4 pt. bar with a SOLID backbraced harness bar (which, as Alan said IS a liability on the street, if not an out and out safety/inspection/LEO issue). (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

3.73s with a stock MN6 ratioed T56 in an LS1 f body will give you the same overall ratios as a stock 3.42/MN12 T56 boxed C5 Z06. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I was regretting not getting the Tick master when I did my LS7 clutch setup, now after hearing your comment on them, I'm glad I went with the stock piece!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (But I did get their remote speed bleeder, which I love!)

I know it is THE 'thing' in Pro Touring (especially on the 1st and 2nd gens), but EVERYONE on here has an extreme dislike for 'staggered' wheel/tire setups (for handling/balance reasons).

The reason C5/6 Vettes can get away with it is lighter overall weight, and more importantly, BETTER WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION. That being said, there are even some C5 and C6 open trackers/road racers/etc. who use an even setup all around as well.

OK, so I have 2 questions, 1) do you have model numbers or specific suggestions of a fixed back seat that meets safety requirements AND it comfortable enough to sit in if you were gonna drive the car a long distance to an event?

2) wheel/tire Selection: which diameter has everyone found to work best (or is most accepted)? Is running the largest tire front and rear (if they are staggered a bad thing (say 285-295 front, 315 rear), or would 285-295 all around be a better setup? Is their a particular wheel/tire combo that isn't Forgeline prices, that has made a good/acceptable combo?

The only wheel/tire restrictions are 200 treadwear minimum rule.
I don't know what some of these protouring cars actually turn on tracks everyone runs (for comparison), I know times are probably out there if i searched long enough, but I find it hard to believe that they are all show and no go. The events that I have been to in person, these cars are rolling out pretty well. I guess last year Danny Popp's c6Z won @ OUSCI, a 500+rwhp c6z with wheel/tire/suspension etc I think most would agree is a formidable setup, and it wasn't much faster or quicker than a lot of these 1st/2nd Gen fbodies. I realize I don't have the pockets to spend like these guys, but I think I'm stubborn enough to believe I can put together a competitive setup....with your guys help that is. I want t represent the 4th Gen to the best of my ability

This post has been edited by pharmd: Jun 6 2012, 12:50 AM

[robz71lm7]

Is the search feature broken?

[The Batman]

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=2922

[pharmd]

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=2922

Thanks man.