Looks like we'll be trying to find a used late model (2006- on) truck in order to be able to take my '02 Z28 off the road and make it a dedicated track car. The truck would need to be able to tow the car and an open trailer safely at highway speeds. Would prefer a club or crew cab for the extra space an longer wheelbase. Right now I'm thinking gas as opposed to diesel since the truck will get limited use other than for track events and few camping trips annually. It will also be available to my two grown sons as needed. Want the space of an 8' bed so I can carry plywood, etc., when needed. Durarbility and reliability are major requirement. Capable of doing most maintenance and repairs on my own on a gas powered vehicle, but I'd like to have something that was practical to use and maintain. Looking for recommendations on what to buy/avoid, average real world mpg figures, etc.. Thanks in advance for your input.

I have one of those for sale in the for sale forum... (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I found the 6 liter/4L80e to work great for towing. I always want more power in everything I drive, but I could maintain the speed limit (or better if I wanted) up 8% grades with an open or an enclosed trailer. I love the truck, but I'm having a strange urge to pay off everything and start saving cash these days, maybe I'm getting old (which is why I'm still trying to sell the car too).

Gas over a diesel any day. I've had both ... Hands down, a gas truck can do 95% of what a diesel can do and do it much cheaper.

I've got the 6' bed and a crew cab. And I wish it articulated in the middle. It's PITA maneuvering in parking lots sometimes. I can't imagine what it's be like with a long bed Crew Cab.
When I need to haul plywood, I drop the tail gate and use a bed extender.

I get about 17 combined empty in my diesel and 10 pulling my enclosed. Ironically, I got 15 combined and 10 while pulling the same enclosed in my old 8.1L 2500HD.

I (personally) don't "believe" in short bed heavy duty pick up trucks. If you are hauling a family of 4 and a 5th wheel camper...maybe. Beyond that, I like a truck that I can use to move to a new house, tow stuff, haul mulch (if needed), etc. A full size couch fits in the back with the tailgate up, and other stuff fits in with it, etc. Parking is fun in some places, but I've just learned to walk a little farther...besides, it's good for me. lol.

Well, I've got a 99 F250 Powerstroke. It's a 4x4 super cab with an 8' box. I've had it for about 5 years now, and got it with 137,000 miles. It's not got about 205,000 miles on it. I did an intake ($50), turbo back exhaust (4" w/ muffler $350), and got an 80hp flash on the PCM ($75). It's a 6 speed manual, with a manual transfer case and manual locking hubs, which I absolutely love. The truck weighs with fuel and me in it, about 7300 lbs.


I know you don't really want a diesel, but I think you should at least really consider diesel. My 7.3 is not the most powerful, quiet, or efficient of all of the diesels, but it does a damn good job. I hand calculate my fuel milage at every fill up. I get about 16-18 MPG doing all around town driving, and to be honest, I don't baby it. My average is usually a little over 17 MPG. Empty with highway driving, I get mid 19's. My best (several times), has been 19.8 MPG. This is maintaining 65 MPG. And I live in the mountains, so I'm sure if I lived in Idaho, I'd be getting over 20. Even if I'm cruising at around 70 MPH, I can get just under 19.5, usually about 19.2 MPG.

I've been doing oil analysis since new. I just did my last at 200,000 miles. Their report said my truck doesn't seem to care when I change the oil (4-10,000 miles), and shows absolutely no signs of wear. Their exact words were "this engine is easily going to last another 200,000 miles).

When I town my 97 SS on a Uhaul, I could honestly not feel it back there (except when accelerating and braking). The only thing I noticed is I had a smoother ride. When I town my boat, same thing.

Highway towing will get me about 14-15 MPG. Again, this is 65 MPH and in the mountains. When headed up hill, 18 wheelers are in their climbing lane crawling at 30 MPH, I am maintaining speed in 6th gear! I have NEVER had to downshift for a hill. I can actually accelerate with a combined weight of 12,000-14,000 lbs.

Diesels are easy to work on. They are bullet proof engines. I love my hand shaker. It's much more durable than the auto's, which need to rebuilt fairly often unless you build it up (which most do).

While my truck does show signs of wear (seats and carpet, paint, exc...) nobody believes me that I've got over 200,000 miles.

Knowing what I know now, if I were to do it all over again, I would get another 7.3. It's one of the most durable engines you could ever own. Stay away from the 6.0, which runs from somewhere around 03-07.

You can pick up very nice, low mileage 7.3's for less than $15K.


I looked at the V10, and I know a few people with that engine. Empty, around town, they get around 11 MPG. Single digits when towing. Of course gas is cheaper right now than diesel.

My 36 gallon tank lets me go over 600 miles between fill ups when empty on the highway. That's really nice.



I have a bed extender (gate), that allows me to have 10' of secured space. It's unreal how much I can fit.

Anyway, I hope this helps. I change my oil every 8,000 miles with dino oil, and about 10,000 miles with synthetic. I've honestly done nothing more than replace an alternator, the oil, and a clutch in nearly 70,000 miles. I've got some glow plugs to replace this summer, but that's about it.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/Steve91T/77356043.jpg)

I can tell you what a PITA it is to replace the diesel in a truck like yours...I've done it. We had to swap one in a friends 2001 F250 4x4 with a 6 speed. The remanufactured crate engine was about $8k and it took 3 of us all weekend (30+ hours of labor) to get the goofy thing out of there. They are pretty reliable...until they aren't. Then they cost a FORTUNE to fix. I know this first hand. The 7.3 does tow well and it gets better mileage than my gas truck, but his only had something over 100k miles on it and the diesel had one bad cylinder (200 psi cranking compression instead of 400 psi, some bad injectors that was about the first $2k spent on maintenance only to wind up changing the whole engine) and some turbo damage. I can account for about $10k spent on a $15k truck in the first year of ownership. This isn't typical, but it can happen (and has). And I got a call to come jump it a few months ago for a dead alternator (that came on the crate engine).

i wouldnt waste time with a gas rig. theres a reason diesels have been making a surge in the last 10 years, and a reason 99% of all commercial heavy duty trucks are diesels. especially if itll see such limited use, you wont notice a huge difference in fuel price.

Sure there are stories like this, but like you said, they aren't common. My truck is actually common. Many people have several hundred thousand miles. My engine only uses 1 quart over 8,000 miles. If the injectors go, I'll upgrade them. If the turbo goes, I'll upgrade it. Someday, I'll rebuild the engine.

You know you can't say anyting negative about diesels just because of a friend who had a bad experience.

Plus, find me one gas engine that's making 600 ft lbs of torque to the ground on $500 in mods.

But of course, I'm really a fan of turbo diesels. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Just so you have a different opinion available, I have a 2006 Honda Ridgeline. I have towed the same rig you are proposing (open trailer with a full weight 96 Z28) approximately 25,000 miles with this truck. Also tow a 19 foot boat rig (3700 pounds) about 2000 miles a year. The truck is rated for 5000 pounds. It is a bit underpowered for steep hills, but has excellent brakes.

The truck has 175,000 miles, original tranny and engine. I'm planning to drive it to 250K minimum, knock on wood. It gets 20 mpg hwy (14 towing). It is a 4 door, and has 4 wheel drive...the Honda version which means it is really front wheel drive with rear wheels working "as needed". It has some unique features which include a lockable waterproof exterior "trunk" and a dual action tailgate (very handy). They come in several trim packages depending on your need for leather, or navigation. It seats 4 comfortably, and 5 easily.

The drawbacks will be smaller bed, and it is not "American". It is however the same 3.5L Honda gas engine (runs on regular gas) that they put in EVERYTHING.

This is also my work truck which explains the extended mileage. I am a real estate appraiser which means the truck has negotiated every conceivable terrain except glaciers with no complaint. No glaciers in Florida.

By the way my wife loves this truck but I wont let her have it.

Good luck!

I daily drive a 97 Dodge with the 5.9L 12V Cummins/ 5spd and love every second of it. Not as sexy as the newer rigs, a bit on the smelly side at times, sounds eerily simliar to a cement mixer rolling onto a job site, won't allow the kids to sneak in late after curfew, but its dead nuts reliable and just the same. I've got 247,000 miles the last 100,000 of which I put on the truck. No issues whatsoever. My mileage in combined driving is anywhere from 17.5-19 depending on the season. Pure highway runs I can get upwards of 22+ depending on if I keep my foot out of it. I get my oil analyzed at the 6 month mark and go a full year on changes 18,000+/-. There is very little maintenance for the engine itself, except for changing the fuel filter 2x a year, its more just rotating tires, greasing the chassis etc. Towing/hauling is a no-brainer. I could never justify a brand new diesel powered truck equivalent to mine (4x4 2500 ext cab, 8' bed) at close to $50k, but I picked mine up for $9K 5+years ago and have 0 regrets. There isn't a gas powered truck out there that could do what my truck does from a power/efficiency/durability/longevity standpoint. I fully expect to see 500K miles, no problem.

Admittedly, I drink the Cummins cool-aide. But I think the big 3 all have pretty good options in the diesel platform, each with their strong/weak points and good/bad years. Big thing to watch for on a used diesel - the tranny/clutch and if a programmer box was used and how it was used. More people tear more stuff up with those boxes and the results won't manifest themselves until afterwards, in the form of tranny/rear/clutch/blown head gaskets etc..

For a spot use vehicle, the gasser is probably the more economical option because the upfront entry cost is significantly less, even in the used arena. The 6.0L LS based trucks (or whatever size they are now) would be my first choice in a gasser, solely because of the engine platform.

Once you tow with a diesel powered truck, you'll never go back to a gasser. The 8.1L might be on par, don't know never towed with one, but it won't give you the mileage, durability, longevity that a diesel will. The newer diesels really are quite easy to DD, so don't dismiss the idea that it would get much more use than you think.

The 8' bed versus the 6' bed is on you and how much real work you intend to do with the truck, beyond that its personal preference. The longer trucks are more cumbersome in the tiny parking lots, and sometimes while towing that maneuverability (or lack of) can come into play, but that's hardly a reason to balk at one. The guys I love are the ones who have 6' bed, the eat up 2 more feet with a tool box? Doesn't make sense to me.....

Another plus to the diesels, is that they usually come equipped with all the heavy duty goodies as a function of the diesel option, but the gassers don't always have the towing upgrades etc, something to consider.

Chris

Just checked autotrader, found a 2000 F250 powerstroke/6sp manual with 108K for $13,000 locally. Looks like some really good deals are available on those trucks right now. BTW Steve, that truck of your look s very nice. If these get much cheaper, I may have to get one myself.

Bock, a Ridgeline? Really? I am amazed that it has stood up to the punishment you've put it through. You say it's a bit under powered, at sea level. I'd hate to see how bad it would be up here.

My main point was that when stuff breaks (or if you happen to be unlucky), it breaks in the most expensive fashion possible on a diesel. Many run forever and "eat" very little. When/if they break...$$$$$$.

I'd really consider how much you'll be hauling plywood. Long beds with club/crew cabs are looooonnnnnggg, and hard to maneuver in some places. We have a 02 2500HD Duramax/Allison, and, as others have said about their diesels, it's been dead-nuts dependable. We don't drive it much, it has like 65K on it now, but we put a heavy open trailer behind it with our 2800# Firebird and forget it's back there. We get low 20's unloaded, and have recorded a 19.6 towing from Texas to Topeka. Unfortunately, the price of diesel has negated any savings, but _you'll_ have to stop before the truck does on long trips. The thing is pretty dang quiet, too. With the 6' bed, we can drag plywood home, just drop the tailgate, and it fits in most standard (even today's 'standard') garages.

I think if I popped the engine, or trans, for that matter, I'd consider unloading it and getting something new. The truck has been a joy to drive otherwise.

I know...it is hard to believe. I pinch myself frequently.

I run premium gas when towing, which puts it on par with diesel for cost. Even so I have been amazed with the truck. It is OK up to about 5000 feet, but I would hate to try it above that. It huffs and puffs a lot after about 3500 feet.

When people ask me how I can use my truck as a daily driver, and how I can park the thing is simple. The more you drive it, the smaller it feels. Full size trucks are big, long bed or not, what's another 2 feet? The only place I don't attempt to park my truck is downtown. That's it. I have a cheap back up camera (a honda civic can be close behind me and I can't see any part of the car) that I use for backing up. To park at the store, I back in every time. I just go past the spot and back in. It's 2nd nature to me now. I use my camera to judge how close the car behind me is.

A couple of weeks ago I was helping my buddy move. He has a Chevy 1500 short box. They couldn't believe the difference in how much stuff I could load into my truck compared to his. Honestly, I was surprised as well. Then figure in my bed extender, I have 10 feet of secured space. If you're getting a truck, GET A TRUCK! My brother was considering a 2x4. He said "well, I'm never planning on going off road, and I live in SC, we hardly see snow". My response was, if it does snow (which it does once in a while), it would suck to realize that his wife's civic would do better in the snow than his truck. He ended up getting a 4x4 and is glad he did.


A lot of people get the short bed because they don't want to deal with parking a long bed. Really? 2 feet is going to make it that much easier? I don't think so.

I've never understood why people get small trucks with a 5 ft beds, and then add a tool box. They are left with 3 feet! That's a trunk!

Steve

This post has been edited by Steve91T: Jul 8 2011, 02:59 PM

I went with a low mile (25k) 2005 Yukon Denali (6.0L) a couple years ago. It was perfect for towing an open trailer/car @ about 5.5k-6k lbs total. Never any problems pulling the trailer. It was also my daily driver too. The rear self leveling made trailer balancing a breeze. Averaged about 12mpg towing. A sierra 1550 Denali would be even cheaper.

Then I went and got a 26' Haulmark. Now I'm pulling ~8k total, which is the max for my Denali. I'm getting 8mpg and it's downshifting a lot more.

I'm thinking of stepping up to a 6.2L, 2007+ Denali, or a crew cab duramax.

I've gotten spoiled with the navi, dvd player, self leveling, heated everything, leather, etc., and don't want to give it up on a daily driver.

Hope this helps.

2006 Ford F250 Diesel here. With crew cab and extended bed. I daily drive the truck with ZERO problems in Virginia Beach. I get 17 mixed, 22 highway unloaded and 16 towing. And it doesn't matter what I'm towing, I get the same. It's the King Ranch package so I have leather and heated seats and all the bells a whistles so things are comfortable on long hauls. Can go over 600 miles on the 35 gallon tank. Just and intake and straight piped exhaust are the mods.

Yes it's the 6 litter that everyone is afraid of. I haven't had any problems because I fixed what Ford screwed up. I got rid of the Gold coolant that would turn into sludge and blow the EGR, and had the FICM re-sautered to keep it from craping out.

Stay away from a newer diesel. In my opinion they're too saddled with EPA crap to be any good. The after market for the newer rucks can't do much for performance or economy because of all the computers. Anything before 2007 is going to be easy to get the power and economy out of to make it worth your time. Every make has it's ups and downs. So in my opinion the truck you go for is all personal preference.

Good luck and make sure what you get is exactly what you want.

I have a 2003 2500HD 4wd 6.0L gasser Silverado. It tows great, with an open trailer and my 1995 Camaro on it. I've never put an enclosed back there, but I'm sure it would pull it. I get ~11MPG towing, 13.5 no matter what unloaded. I had one major problem with it (transfer case failure), but I think I caused it. Other than that, no big issues. I think the radio went bad right after I took delivery, and a brake fluid sensor failed. Oh, and a tree fell on it doing major body damage when it was 2.5 months old. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/nutkick.gif)

My only dislike about the truck is the 4-speed transmission. The 4L80E is stout, but a couple more cogs would be a plus. Maybe look at a 2007 6.0L 2500HD with a 6-speed.

It's funny. I was in the same boat as you with the attractiveness of a gasser. Ease of maintenance, cheaper, etc. Earlier this year I sold my 1996 6.5L turbo diesel to buy a newer 6.0 gasser. The 6.5L was a great, solid truck...but it had its quirks. But mostly I was just sick of DDing a regular cab pickup truck.

Well, after looking at a TON of beat up 6.0L work trucks, I expanded my search to duramax's. Finding a manual trans in a 6.0 is hard enough; but coming across one locally in a duramax is near impossible. I ended up with an '01 duramax extended cab 2wd with the 6 speed manual and 174k miles. It needed a clutch, and head gaskets, but the price was right. I was definitely intimidated by the duramax, but once you dig into it; it's an absolute pleasure to work on! Isuzu did a great job building an easily serviceable powerplant....just have to get over the sheer size of the thing!

Now, for the best part. The duramax gets the same fuel mileage under tow as my old truck did around town! It's fast as hell too!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif) I get ~21 mpg around town, and the last trip from Atlanta to Charlotte with my 24' enclosed, gross weight approx 15k lbs, I averaged 14.1 mpg doing ~65mph with the cruise set! And with a ton of passing power too! My truck does have a towing tune, so a stock one won't do quite that well on fuel. But a gasser won't come close.

+1 for the Duramax!

FWIW, a 12V cummins was my second choice. Solid engine, and it's easy to find one with a manual transmission...you just have to deal with the rest of the truck (mopar (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) ).

All the positives folks are saying about the diesel based trucks is true. Not going to argue that point. My 07 6.0 PSD has been as trouble free as any vehicle I've owned.

The two things that irritate the crap out of me are ...

Oil changes -
16 quart oil changes - that's 4 gallons of used oil to deal with and 4 gallons to purchase every 5K miles.


Fuel -
deisel is now the highest priced fuel at the pump. It's regularly a dime/gallon more expensive than 93. And the only pump with deisel is filled by a soccer mom, not only filling her SUV with gasoline, but buying Icees for the team.

my truck is VERY picky about water in the fuel. I have just a couple places around town that I feel comfortable in purchasing fuel. I have to drain the seperator about once every month or six weeks.

When travelling, its a crap shoot ... I always carry a 2L soda jug and a length of hose in the trailer to drain the seperator.


Now there are some positives ...

Like aligning my exhaust with the driver's window of a lowered, bass thumping Explorer and spooling up the turbo, dumping a healthy dose of blackened CO2 through the open window.

(IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)