Good Morning all,

Just wanted to stop in and say hello. I just purchased my new to me 1991 Camaro RS in June and am getting it back into shape after being cast aside by a FoMoCo guy.

This will be my first F-body, having owned mostly Nissan's in the past. I'm mainly going to be using it at the Autocross and would love to get out for some Track days

I have since started tearing the car down to get at the rust spots I found once I got the car home. I am taking a welding class right now since my first attempts at welding with my little Craftsman 110V gasless welder were less than good.

So this is where I need your help guys. I've been looking over the ESP rules and can't quite figure out whats legal and not as far as engine swaps go with the update/backdate rule. I need to know if swapping in an LS1 and T56 are ESP legal and also swapping in the rear end from a forth gen LS1 car for the disk brakes and 4 inches of track width increase. I've been hunting all over and searching, but just can't come up with the answers I need.

Right now the interior is stripped out to get at the rust, so I want to figure out what I can do engine wise in ESP before I put the interior back in, or I can just leave it out and go to CP.

Thanks for the help guys.

Here's a link to the cars pictures. LINK

(IMG:http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SkA8qbsZ4eI/AAAAAAAAABo/XhODsqe3QT8/s640/P1000276.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SkA8qwcb9xI/AAAAAAAAABw/gUDSYisytzE/s640/P1000277.JPG)

This post has been edited by aarivers: Aug 17 2009, 01:20 PM

In Street Prepared, swapping under the update/backdate provisions only applies to cars listed on the same line in the rulebook.

So, you could swap an 08+ LS1 (and the LS1 flavor of the T56) into a 93-97 LT1 car (or vice versa) but you can't swap between 3rd gen and 4th gen.

You could, however, swap in a 5.7 TPI, which was only offered with an auto as as far as I know, and swap in the T5 from a 5.0 car (if you don't have it already). You could also swap in any of the 3rd gen axles, and so on.

The caveat is that the engine and transmission must each be swapped as units except for stuff that is unrestricted. For example, I could swap a 99 LS1 into my 2001 car, but I can't the swap 99 cam into my 2001 engine.

If you want to compete in ESP, I would HIGHLY recommend getting a rulebook (or downloading the pdf) and reading the Street Prepared and Stock rules before you start spending money. Street Prepared inherits Stock rules except for what is specifically documented otherwise, so read the Stock rules first and then Street Prepared. It sucks to get bumped up into C-Prepared accidentally (if you go to CP, do it intentionally (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). It also sucks to have to demod the car.

I don't know 3rd gens all that well, but you might want to call Sam Strano at Stranoparts.com. He can provide a lot of help for setting up a 3rd gen ESP car.

Welcome aboard!

This post has been edited by sgarnett: Aug 17 2009, 01:42 PM

Welcome. Here's a thread (not exactly relavant to an ESP car, but some of it is) that might keep you busy for a while:

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?sho...ic=9864&hl=

That's my 3rd gen build (still in progress) with lots of pics and you might find some useful info in it (or not).

And Sean is correct, the 5.7 TPI was only offered with an automatic. There have been rumors that a few escaped the factory with manuals behind them, but I've never been able to prove this and I don't think it actually happened. So, we work under the assumption that there were only 5.7/automatic package cars built.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Yeah I just wanted to clarify what it meant when it said on the same line, for the update/backdate rule in ESP.

I think at this point it would actually be more cost effective for me to just make the car a CP ride, since my car is a 5.0L with 5MT so to find a TPI unit and trans would probably be more than getting a 5.3L LS motor and T56, based of prices for used TPI engines. I would also have to buy new carpet for the interior and other little trim pieces. So I might be better off with jut going crazy with the car.

Here some more pics of the rust and how the car is looking now. The car was from mid Indiana. Link to Pics

(IMG:http://lh6.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/Skgm9sUH90I/AAAAAAAAAGM/Lifw037UPQU/s640/P1000321.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/Skgm-2vnaHI/AAAAAAAAAGY/7txNmOBSYmU/s640/P1000324.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh4.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SkgnB8Xg58I/AAAAAAAAAG8/HCywviZ7i_o/s640/P1000332.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh5.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SkgnBeNbV1I/AAAAAAAAAG4/Vt2j1T_JeR0/s640/P1000331.JPG)

Welcome to CP!! (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/rotf.gif)

Wow, I've never seen rear wheelwells that bad. Looks like you'll have to replace those, at least. If you're going to do that, might as well put minitubs in it and slide some nice, sticky 14" slicks under there. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You may be needing to replace some floorpanels, too. I _think_ you can do that with aluminum, especially up front, but would need to double-check the ol' rule book, first.

A 5.0L 5sp with 1LE is a contendah in FS, but you gotta do it all stock, and stock 1LE 3rd gen parts are getting hard to find, and expensive. CP can be a lot of fun, depending on the region. Our 85 is awaiting a new engine (5.0L LS*), but is still fun to drive. Hopefully, it'll be a bit more competitive with the new power.

PS: if you go CP, and the dash pad is in good shape, and you're not gonna use it, DIBS!!

This post has been edited by CrashTestDummy: Aug 17 2009, 09:47 PM

Based on the photo album, I think it's in worse shape (cracked) than mine, and mine is cracked too.

WOW, people have thrown away cars with less rust than that. At least you wont be cutting up a clean car when you put it in CP!

CP can be fun depending on the region and competition, but it can be overwhelming at first. I would go to a bunch of events before you spent any real money on modifications. Nationally ranked CP cars are not something you would want to drive on the street very often, and typically they aren't street legal.

Yeah unfortunately trackbird is correct , the dash is cracked right down the middle and has some cracks along the edges, I was going to try to refurbish it by taking a sander and sanding down the outer layer and the foam pretty much till it's flat with the metal base then taking some closed cell foam and gluing it to the dash then recovering it with some black leather or high quality leather substitute. It might work.. it might not. I imagine the factory foam is some type of catalyst activated expanding foam.

Yeah I don't think I have seen that much rust damage in wheel wells myself, I had started to work on them before but my fluxcore wire kept burning through the sheet metal, So I started taking welding classes (having no previous experience with a welder) and got to work on it this weekend, the patch panels are 16 gauge steel I bought at Lowes, it's not perfect by any means but it is water tight and is not rusted. lol I will be using the 16g steel to patch the floor panels also and then I'm gonna take my wire cup brush try and remove as much surface rust as possible, then go over it with some POR15 or another rust preventive type paint sealer.

Here's my handy work so far, now understand this was done on a 110V Gasless welder with fluxcore wire and I'm still learning. lol

(IMG:http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SooMISwfIZI/AAAAAAAAAKY/aURGUf0xs0U/s640/P1000490.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh4.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SooMIxyuSJI/AAAAAAAAAKc/-Q2Vvk1Q_m4/s640/P1000491.JPG)

This post has been edited by aarivers: Aug 18 2009, 02:58 PM

Not bad. Now, cut them out, and swap them. Take the piece on the flat part, and weld it to the wheelwell, then take the end plate and weld it to the end of the newly-welded part. Repeat on the driver's side, and voila', minitubs!

Notch the 'frame rail' and you almost have enough room to tuck 14" slicks under the rear fenders. (IMG:http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/style_emoticons/default/2thumbs.gif)

Bah... Forget Minitubs, I'd rather run some huge flares and gain the track width. lol

Well I got to do some more work this weekend. But before that I broke down and went to Lowes to get some 8ft florescent fixtures as I was not able to really see anything once the sun went down. Boy do they make a difference, so much less fatigue and strain on my eyes.

I was able to get all the rust and holes patched on the rear of the car, so now it's time for the floor boards, whcich should be a little bit easier as they are pretty much flat panels, no sculpting or tight spots to get into.

The new fixtures.

(IMG:http://lh6.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SpsofT6VLMI/AAAAAAAAALc/rhNRweu7Prk/s640/P1000501.JPG)

And my finished patch panels.

(IMG:http://lh3.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SpsofMADvKI/AAAAAAAAALY/zC3Eol_PUPo/s640/P1000500.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh5.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/SpsoeHjJbKI/AAAAAAAAALQ/e3ru_N3YS4k/s640/P1000498.JPG)

(IMG:http://lh6.ggpht.com/_wy1t5jXBAfE/Spsoc3m7EUI/AAAAAAAAALA/FXIJ0KQJftA/s640/P1000495.JPG)